For The Love Of Port

Derek T. wrote:Fonseca Guimaraens is most definitely not an SQVP !!

Derek T. wrote: So, when is an SQVP not a "real" SQVP?

Glenn E. wrote:I think you've covered the actual rules well enough, but to me there is a difference in perception between something like Quinta do Noval or Quinta do Vesuvio, which only make SQVPs and do it as often as possible, and something like Taylor's Quinta de Vargellas or Graham's Quinta dos Malvedos which are normally only produced in non-declared years.

In that sense, Noval and Vesuvio aren't "real" SQVPs because they're a primary product. "Real" SQVPs are, to me, normally secondary products.

Derek T. wrote:Fonseca Guimaraens is most definitely not an SQVP !!

If you check out the thread where we had David Guimaraens as a guest on this site you will find that he says FG is made in the same way as the wines released as "Fonseca" in classic years.

As for this...

Andy Velebil wrote:While similar to Ronald, IMO there are really two distinct categories. Or should I say sub-categories?

SQVP's that truly are from a single Quinta (only produced in non-classicly declared years) and "SQVP's" which are really a blend released in non-classically declared years. One can rightly argue the later isn't a true "SQVP", but they seem to have been generally accepted as one.

An SQVP is an SQVP whether it is the producer's primary or secondary brand. The definition of an SQVP is that it is produced using the grapes of one quinta. Quinta do Vesuvio, Quinta do Noval, Quinta dos Malvedos, Quinta do Anythingyoulike are all SQVPs, all of which are a blend of wines that are made from grapes grown on one quinta. There really is no difference.

Something that I find interesting in a debate about SQVPs is that the very existence of Quinta do Noval and its long history of making top class VP and the emergence of Quinta do Vesuvio dispel the myth that you need grapes from multiple locations to make the best VP. It simply isn't true Yes, it helps if you can access the best grapes from many places to blend together, but it doesn't have to be that way to end up with a fabulous wine. No doubt the argument will emerge that Vesuvio can only do this because of its size, but that argument falls over when you consider Noval, which is much smaller than Vesuvio.

To add fuel to the fire, in recent years Noval have been producing Noval Silval VP, which is a blend from Quinta do Noval and other sources, as their secondary brand. The is entirely the reverse of what producers such as Graham, Dow, and Taylor do. Then there is Croft, which in recent years has produced all (or the vast majority) of its vintage wines entirely from the grapes grown on Quinta da Roeda. In classic years they brand it "Croft" and in others years "Quinta da Roeda", but the wines are all from the same place.

So, when is an SQVP not a "real" SQVP?

Glenn E. wrote:Now Graham's Quinta dos Malvedos on the other hand... that's an SQVP.

Glenn E. wrote:

Derek T. wrote:Fonseca Guimaraens is most definitely not an SQVP !!

Neither is Graham's Malvedos.

Now Graham's Quinta dos Malvedos on the other hand... that's an SQVP.

Derek T. wrote:Is there an IVDP definition of an SQVP? (I am hoping not)

Eric Menchen wrote:

Derek T. wrote:Is there an IVDP definition of an SQVP? (I am hoping not)

I don't think so. I couldn't find "quinta" in the first few IVDP regulations I checked. I think use of the word is covered in broader (EU, international) regulations.

Daniel R. wrote: No, the special category is "Vintage". Mentioning it comes from a single property is optional information that may be placed on the label. The language of the regulation is:

Referência ao estatuto da entidade nos termos da legislação em vigor, quando o vinho em questão for proveniente exclusivamente de uvas colhidas de videiras que fazem parte da exploração vitícola e se a vinificação tiver sido efectuada nessa exploração ou o detentor da exploração vitícola assuma inequivocamente a direcção efectiva e a responsabilidade exclusiva pela vinificação, pelo vinho produzido e pelo respectivo engarrafamento

Reference to the status of the entity under the law in force when the wine in question is derived exclusively from grapes harvested from vines that are part of the vineyard and the winemaking has been made that holding or keeper of the vineyard takes unequivocally direction effective and exclusive responsibility for winemaking, the wine produced and bottled by its

3.1.3. Name of the viticultural holding
The name of the viticultural holding (château, quinta, finca, tenuta, Weingut, manor, estate etc):
- the wine must come solely from the said holding: grapes harvested and vinified in the holding as such designated;
- the description of the viticultural holding must correspond to the customs of the country and must not create confusion in the mind of the consumer;
- the wine must be entitled to a recognised geographic indication or recognised appellation of origin, and be mentioned as such.

Derek T. wrote:So the evidence points to the fact that the definition, even if only implied, is that an SQVP is a wine produced from the grapes grown on a single quinta. Nothing seems to distinguish between SQVP that is a primary versus a secondary brand, so that distinction is entirely of the consumer's making. That being the case, most here seem to be answering the question "Secondary brand, what is your favs?", rather than the question posed in the title of the thread.

Glenn E. wrote:I think you've covered the actual rules well enough, but to me there is a difference in perception between something like Quinta do Noval or Quinta do Vesuvio, which only make SQVPs and do it as often as possible, and something like Taylor's Quinta de Vargellas or Graham's Quinta dos Malvedos which are normally only produced in non-declared years.

In that sense, Noval and Vesuvio aren't "real" SQVPs because they're a primary product. "Real" SQVPs are, to me, normally secondary products.

Andy Velebil wrote:Some people say Noval Nacional is a Single vineyard Single Quinta. Yet that is not correct either as Nacional is at least two distinctly different plots of vines. One above and one below the main Quinta road, both having different exposures. So how can it be a "Single vineyard"?

Glenn E. wrote:
That said, having been to Quinta do Noval I find it a bit amusing that the two Nacional "plots" are somehow distinct from the surrounding plots that are adjacent to them.

Andy Velebil wrote:

Glenn E. wrote:
That said, having been to Quinta do Noval I find it a bit amusing that the two Nacional "plots" are somehow distinct from the surrounding plots that are adjacent to them.

Now you're really

I often have wondered how the grape vines a few feet away are "that" different as well. I haven't seen anything magically different a few feet away. Just like the lore that all the vines are from the original replant. When in fact they regularly die and are replanted. Honestly I could care less so long as the product quality remains high.

Andy Velebil wrote:

Glenn E. wrote:
That said, having been to Quinta do Noval I find it a bit amusing that the two Nacional "plots" are somehow distinct from the surrounding plots that are adjacent to them.

Now you're really

I often have wondered how the grape vines a few feet away are "that" different as well. I haven't seen anything magically different a few feet away. Just like the lore that all the vines are from the original replant. When in fact they regularly die and are replanted. Honestly I could care less so long as the product quality remains high.

Rob C. wrote: If going on a "second brand" basis, some of the recent vintage Dow Senhora da Ribeiras that i have had are outstanding. Preferable (as young ports) to my palate than the Bomfims (but i have no clue about ageing potential).