I would guess a basic tawny also 10/20 year old.
BTW, here is some instructions on how to post a small pic in the thread
http://www.fortheloveofport.com/ftlopfo ... 0&start=20
page 2 of the thread, toward the middle of the replys.
Croft 1958
Moderators: Glenn E., Roy Hersh, Andy Velebil
-
Andy Velebil
- Posts: 16810
- Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 4:49 pm
- Location: Los Angeles, California, United States of America - USA
- Contact:
Andy Velebil Good wine is a good familiar creature if it be well used. William Shakespeare http://www.fortheloveofport.com
OK. Here are my thoughts as to what I believe was in the bottle that I described previously.
Starting with the bottle. The shape of the bottle is almost exactly identical to that of the Croft 1945 and the Morgan 1945 bottles that I have. I have also been able to compare the shape of the bottle and the type of glass to a 1935 VP and also to a 1950 VP. The quality of the glass and shape of the bottle is closer to the 1945 than any of the other alternatives. Therefore, I have concluded that the wine was bottled during or around the end of the second world war.
So what was in the bottle? The first thing that astonished me was the lack of sediment. There was hardly anything, just a trace of fine dust. Clearly this was not a vintage port of any description. To some extent this was backed up by the cheap cardboard cap carrying nothing but the word "PORT" on it - but then the 1947 Nacional that Linden opened recently had nothing but the word "PORT" embossed on the black wax capsule so perhaps that is not to damning.
Therefore, it was either a tawny or some other form of cask-aged port. Now my tasting experience of tawnies and colheitas is very limited, so here is where I will happily confess to having to rely on intuition and not experience. However, to my taste the wine in the bottle was not showing the typical robust flavours of a tawny wine, oxidatively aged in oak for some years before being blended and bottled. I think it was showing more of the ethereal qualities that you find in a bottle aged wine. Would you see these sorts of characteristics in, say, a 10 year old tawny that had then been in the bottle for 60 years? Quite possibly.
But the conclusion that I came to was that this was most likely a reserve or ruby port bottled in England during the war when port was in extremely short supply and anything would do.
The good news is that I still have another bottle as they were sold to me as a pair, so when Derek decides to organise his tasting of "Ancient and Venerable Ruby Ports", I can now contribute a bottle.
Alex
Starting with the bottle. The shape of the bottle is almost exactly identical to that of the Croft 1945 and the Morgan 1945 bottles that I have. I have also been able to compare the shape of the bottle and the type of glass to a 1935 VP and also to a 1950 VP. The quality of the glass and shape of the bottle is closer to the 1945 than any of the other alternatives. Therefore, I have concluded that the wine was bottled during or around the end of the second world war.
So what was in the bottle? The first thing that astonished me was the lack of sediment. There was hardly anything, just a trace of fine dust. Clearly this was not a vintage port of any description. To some extent this was backed up by the cheap cardboard cap carrying nothing but the word "PORT" on it - but then the 1947 Nacional that Linden opened recently had nothing but the word "PORT" embossed on the black wax capsule so perhaps that is not to damning.
Therefore, it was either a tawny or some other form of cask-aged port. Now my tasting experience of tawnies and colheitas is very limited, so here is where I will happily confess to having to rely on intuition and not experience. However, to my taste the wine in the bottle was not showing the typical robust flavours of a tawny wine, oxidatively aged in oak for some years before being blended and bottled. I think it was showing more of the ethereal qualities that you find in a bottle aged wine. Would you see these sorts of characteristics in, say, a 10 year old tawny that had then been in the bottle for 60 years? Quite possibly.
But the conclusion that I came to was that this was most likely a reserve or ruby port bottled in England during the war when port was in extremely short supply and anything would do.
The good news is that I still have another bottle as they were sold to me as a pair, so when Derek decides to organise his tasting of "Ancient and Venerable Ruby Ports", I can now contribute a bottle.
Alex
-
Andy Velebil
- Posts: 16810
- Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 4:49 pm
- Location: Los Angeles, California, United States of America - USA
- Contact:
Very cool Alex, I guess the mystery deepens for next time. Hopefully then Derek can open some if his 30 year rubies and you can tell us all how the cheap ones age
Andy Velebil Good wine is a good familiar creature if it be well used. William Shakespeare http://www.fortheloveofport.com
-
Derek T.
- Posts: 4080
- Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2005 5:02 pm
- Location: Chesterfield, United Kingdom - UK
- Contact:
If you are going to be like that then maybe I'll just keep these to myself and not let you taste them....
Sandeman Ruby circa 1936
Taylor's 10 yr old Tawny bottled 1976
Taylor's 20 yr old Tawny bottled 1973
Fonseca Port 1920 (unknown style)
Fonseca 20 yr old Tawny bottled 1978
Fonseca 30 yr old tawny bottled 1982
Noval LBV 1965
Cruz Ruby circa 1856
Derek
Sandeman Ruby circa 1936
Taylor's 10 yr old Tawny bottled 1976
Taylor's 20 yr old Tawny bottled 1973
Fonseca Port 1920 (unknown style)
Fonseca 20 yr old Tawny bottled 1978
Fonseca 30 yr old tawny bottled 1982
Noval LBV 1965
Cruz Ruby circa 1856
Derek
-
Andy Velebil
- Posts: 16810
- Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 4:49 pm
- Location: Los Angeles, California, United States of America - USA
- Contact:
Derek,Cruz Ruby circa 1856
So are you just trying to see if Cruz has been consistantly bad for the past 150+ years or....
Andy Velebil Good wine is a good familiar creature if it be well used. William Shakespeare http://www.fortheloveofport.com
-
Tom Archer
- Posts: 2790
- Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2005 8:09 pm
- Location: Near Saffron Walden, England
Derek,
I have some old (but undated) Berry 'vintage character' which I am currently using to rinse decanters, and flog to my friends as 'quaffing port' - which is well received at £5/bottle.
I have two lots - with identical labels, one lot is totally reduced to tawny, while the other still has some colour
- Would you like me to keep a bottle for you?
Tom
I have some old (but undated) Berry 'vintage character' which I am currently using to rinse decanters, and flog to my friends as 'quaffing port' - which is well received at £5/bottle.
I have two lots - with identical labels, one lot is totally reduced to tawny, while the other still has some colour
- Would you like me to keep a bottle for you?
Tom
-
Derek T.
- Posts: 4080
- Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2005 5:02 pm
- Location: Chesterfield, United Kingdom - UK
- Contact:
Tom,
Could you spare a 6 pack of the red ones?
I love these old bottles but rarely open them as I think they are of more interest intact. One day I may be rich enough to have an oak panelled library with a huge display cabinet full of port relics - I even have one cabinet planned that could take a pickled FTLOP Forum Member dressed in one of Roy's t-shirts, baseball caps and a glass of NN63 in hand
Seriously, it would be good to see what these actually taste like and, if nothing else, would be good for decanter rinsing 8)
Derek
Could you spare a 6 pack of the red ones?
I love these old bottles but rarely open them as I think they are of more interest intact. One day I may be rich enough to have an oak panelled library with a huge display cabinet full of port relics - I even have one cabinet planned that could take a pickled FTLOP Forum Member dressed in one of Roy's t-shirts, baseball caps and a glass of NN63 in hand
Seriously, it would be good to see what these actually taste like and, if nothing else, would be good for decanter rinsing 8)
Derek
Tom,
Do you have any indication of age at all from the label or style of bottle? For £5, I'd would like to buy one of the bottles from you that have turned completely to tawny and compare it to the "Not Croft '58" that I was writing about above.
I'll bring the cash with me next time we meet - for the Berry's Old Reserve and for the Morgan '91.
Alex
Do you have any indication of age at all from the label or style of bottle? For £5, I'd would like to buy one of the bottles from you that have turned completely to tawny and compare it to the "Not Croft '58" that I was writing about above.
I'll bring the cash with me next time we meet - for the Berry's Old Reserve and for the Morgan '91.
Alex