For The Love Of Port

Although I thought there were some pretty darn great values in our last SUBSCRIBERS BUYER's OP - I found out that sales were skimpy compared to other versions over the past couple of years.

Now I thought long and hard and knew it wasn't a pricing issue or the six different wines being offered. So was it because it was just a few weeks before the holidays in early Dec?

I've been considering doing this again in Feb. or March with the same wines ... BUT not unless some of the subscribers come to the fore and give a resounding yes. I don't want to waste everyone's time otherwise. So please let me know your thoughts on this.

Thanks!

No shipping to MA didn't help either.

I seriously considered the broadbent 10 year malmsey and 96 colheita. if the 10% solid case discount was offered on a mixed case, that probably would have gotten me over the hump. i think moses has distorted my view of what a good price is on the 10 year malmsey!

Steve Pollack wrote:i think moses has distorted my view of what a good price is on the 10 year malmsey!

I don't think that deal is around anymore. I split a case of the '96 with my accountant at $36 a bottle.

I bought from that same supplier the last time there was a buyer's opPORTunity from them, and I'm not as big a fan of that particular 20 year old as some people around here are, so I passed this time. And no, I'm not interested in another chance for them right now.

While I do like the Ferreira Duque de Braganca 20 Year Old Tawny Port, my reasons for not opting into the buying opportunity this time around haven't changed.

Other than that Ferreira, there wasn't anything in this offer that I was interested in. And a 20-yr old isn't something I feel a need to stock up on because they're so readily available around here. Plus there's the whole economy and lack of storage space issues...

If something were to change I might pick up a 6-pack of the Ferreira if it were made available again, but it's certainly not worth doing based on that "if" from me. The way things seem to be going right now I'd probably pass again anyway.

Well I am not so sure that anything is going to get people excited here. So don't know where to even look next. What would you like to see?

I'll tell you honestly if it is even within the realms of reality. Every price on the last offering was below any on winesearcher at the time too. Some WAY under. That's not always going to be the case when doing multiple bottlings though. You have no idea how time consuming these things are for the people selling their wines to do (just the negotiations back and forth can take us many hours). Another "failure" like this and I might just do away w/ the buyer's ops. Outside of ONE person who told me that is the MAIN reason he subscribes, I've not heard that from others. I don't want to take any perks away, but if they're only going to have a few people take advantage, well ... so be it.

Now is your chance to speak up folks. Tell me what you want and would like to see ... must obviously be doable. For example, please don't say you'd like to see 40 year old Tawny Ports at $75 or aged 1970 VPs for $50. In that case you'd get a PM from me, politely explaining why pigs don't fly.

I am happy to put the work into these if people will participate, but 2 offerings in 2010 had so little impact. I don't want to waste your time, so please do let me know ... right in this thread.

2 factors for me to buy:

1 - I need shipping to Portugal. One of the recent FTLOP offers allowed for UK delivery. I thought it might be worthwhile to pay shipping to Portugal. I contacted the company (following FTLOP instructions) and did not even receive a reply.

2 - Wines difficult to find In Portugal. This will be practically anything from small producers; any VP that is not from the last few popular vintages (i.e. 2007, 2005 and 2003); recent SQVP from smaller producers or older SQVP from any producers; Colheitas that are not Krohn, Barros, Kopke, Niepoort, Burmester, and Noval; and any Madeira at a good price!

I've bought in a number of Buyer's Ops, and it is a key reason why I subscribe to the newsletter, but not the only one. I would guess I participate in about half of the buys. I bought in the previous Broadbent, the Wineworth/Kopke, the Portal, and the Quevedo. That last one was great IMHO. We were able to buy stuff you don't regularly find, and get that little sampler pack. Some buys are more interesting than others, and sometimes finances don't agree. I don't recall seeing any buys from the big guys (TFP, Symingtons), and that might be of some interest. Niepoort? That would be great. I would also be interested in some of the smaller producers that we can't usually find. Just as the Quevedo is a hard find, I would be interested in Quinta do Vale Meão if such a thing could be arranged; although that might not interest a lot of other people.

I'd love to see an Alves de Souza Buyer's Op. (one that will ship to MA).

I may have missed something (which might explain my confusion in December), but I don't think I ever saw the offering the first time around.

Eric Menchen wrote:and sometimes finances don't agree.

That's my main problem right now. I've bought heavily - at least a case - in each of the previous buyer's opportunities, but finances combined with lack of storage space combined with the particular selection this time around just meant that I had to skip it.

I loved the selection last time around, but didn't buy due to finances (Christmas shopping etc). Another offer later in the year would be great...

My ability to participate in these buying ops will always be very limited, but I'll chime in with my for what it's worth :

1. I would be most interested in Ports that are hard to find locally, or hard to find period. At this stage I'm usually buying Ports that I haven't had the opportunity to try before.
2. Perhaps it would be helpful for you to post a list of wines that you're considering doing a buying op for, and let people vote on them. That way you're not doing all the work only to find out that nobody's jumping in the pool. Just a thought.

I will do my very best to answer each and every one (subscriber or not) that posts in this thread!



Daniel R.,

In most cases it is not possible for American wine importers/distributors or retailers to sell wine to companies overseas. The paper work to circumvent "the powers that be" or try to work within the bureaucracy is next to impossible. This is no different than trying to get Portugal companies to ship here. It is nearly impossible unless one has an import license. It is doable ... here, but it is VERY expensive. I am sorry that it is so difficult, but you must understand as you can't even find these Portuguese beauties in your own country. Kind of like someone from Hong Kong asking me to ship them fireworks. ; )



Eric Menchen,

I realize you are a very big supporter of the Buyer's Ops and I am happy that they work for you and appreciate that fact. There was a TFP deal in 2010, but to be fair, it is very hard for them and SFE to do this without hurting their own 3 tier system. I've tried and it is next to impossible, due to the importer of one of those two companies. I am not at liberty to say more. I can only work "some magic" when the wine/Port/Madeira ALREADY is coming into the USA. Thanks again for your purchases which I am sure the groups have appreciated.


Moses,

You live in MA and until your state loosens up its draconian laws, I am not sure there's much this guy in Seattle can do to help you! You need to get your friends to start calling the state legislature, your state Senator etc.


Peter,

Sorry you missed it ... especially the Duque de Braganca 20 year old Tawny by Ferreira which was a SCREAMING deal. I know the last newsletter was a bit on the long side, but at least read the table of contents ... then again, I had announced an upcoming buyer's op here on the Forum and in a previous newsletter as well.


Glenn,

I know that like Eric M., you've been great. I know the economy is not good and that the last offer was close to the holidays. That is why I am offering a Re-Do on the same offer, because there are Douro wines, Madeiras and Ports at GREAT pricing in there. I'd be happy to wait a few months March/April for people to accumulate more money, but I also look at the thread about what people are buying and there's no shortage of that going on ... even from people in this thread. : )



Marco D.,

Thanks, a ton of work went into making sure that the 6 specific wines I wanted included were in there. Margins were deeply cut to make this happen for FTLOP, as others have done in the past too. As you know I do not benefit financially from these and it is solely my way to thank you all for being subscribers. I am happy to continue doing so if people will take advantage. If not, it makes no sense to do all the work and "push" the snowball back uphill with importers, distributors, retailers on occasion, PLUS folks in Portugal who are all in the loop. If others feel like you that it would be worth doing again, I'd be happy to provide an opportunity like that again. Heck, if possible, I want to do and give you guys what is legal/possible and within my sphere of influence.



Melanie,

I appreciate what you are saying. Many of the wines offered are not that easy to come by, while others are ... but these are typically very solidly priced and advantageous for the buyer. In all honesty, I am not going to put the wines here in the Forum for people to vote on. Sorry.
What you don't understand is that because these are private sales and not huge numbers, importers etc. are willing to do things that otherwise they'd be VERY reluctant to do. You can call me if you need a deeper explanation as it is not a topic I want to put on a public Forum ... solely for the protection of those willing to work with FTLOP. I realize yours was a very innocent comment.


The candor in this thread is truly appreciated and please feel free to continue the discussion. I will be as forthright as possible without putting any companies interests in jeopardy.

Roy Hersh wrote: Peter,

Sorry you missed it ... especially the Duque de Braganca 20 year old Tawny by Ferreira which was a SCREAMING deal. I know the last newsletter was a bit on the long side, but at least read the table of contents ... then again, I had announced an upcoming buyer's op here on the Forum and in a previous newsletter as well.

The most recent newsletter I have (or can see on the website) is #54 (Sep 2010). I do not see any offer in the table of contents. For some reason I do not have copies of #52 or #53. I always read the newsletters from cover to cover, or at least skim each page. I just don't recall this offer, or I think I would have taken advantage of it.

I just got a case of DdB locally for about $51/btl (case before was $55) which is decent but not Screaming. It has sort of become my "house port", so it wouldn't hurt me to have extra (at one point I was about 10 cases deep in Nimrod at $32 or so, but I'm down to about 5 bottles).

BTW, as a side note: the Nimrod (last bottled in mid-2008) is fading, so this tawny at least SHOULD be drunk (have been drunk) soon after bottling.

------------edit------
Well, I don't know what I did differently (today, as opposed to yesterday and many times previously), but I have now been able to download #s 52, 53, 55 and 56 from the website. I seem to have a bit of reading to do.

Roy Hersh wrote:You live in MA and until your state loosens up its draconian laws, I am not sure there's much this guy in Seattle can do to help you! You need to get your friends to start calling the state legislature, your state Senator etc.

MA does allow shipping. I get wine from several companies and states every month. Most vendors are too scared to ship here.

Roy Hersh wrote: Melanie,
I appreciate what you are saying. Many of the wines offered are not that easy to come by, while others are ... but these are typically very solidly priced and advantageous for the buyer. In all honesty, I am not going to put the wines here in the Forum for people to vote on. Sorry.
What you don't understand is that because these are private sales and not huge numbers, importers etc. are willing to do things that otherwise they'd be VERY reluctant to do. You can call me if you need a deeper explanation as it is not a topic I want to put on a public Forum ... solely for the protection of those willing to work with FTLOP. I realize yours was a very innocent comment.

It's understandable that there would be reasons for you not to say ahead of time which wines you're thinking of doing. I just figured that if you're asking people which ones they want (as you did previously in this thread), it might as well go the other way around too. But it seems that you're 'walking on thin ice' in order to get us these deals. It was, as you say, an innocent comment, having no idea how this works on your end (or much idea of how the wine business works in general).

Roy Hersh wrote:I know that like Eric M., you've been great. I know the economy is not good and that the last offer was close to the holidays. That is why I am offering a Re-Do on the same offer, because there are Douro wines, Madeiras and Ports at GREAT pricing in there. I'd be happy to wait a few months March/April for people to accumulate more money, but I also look at the thread about what people are buying and there's no shortage of that going on ... even from people in this thread. : )

Of course, but we all have different priorities. The stuff I've bought recently is either stuff that I've been trying to find for a while ('97 Vesuvio), stuff that you can't buy in the US and I stumbled upon an opportunity (Romaneira 40-yr old), or stuff that was so ridiculously low priced that it simply couldn't be passed up (Portal 20-yr old for $19).

Some of my past purchases through the FTLOP opportunities fit into a category like that so I made a purchase even though I wasn't otherwise buying at the time. The Quevedo op was a perfect example - not only were those great prices, but it was a Port that I'd been wanting AND it was a Port that we couldn't find in the US. A trifecta!

I don't really know what to tell you without sounding like it's all about me. The buying opportunities are a key component of an FTLOP membership, at least to me, but they're not the only reason I subscribe. This last one just didn't appeal to me, but that's completely fine - I don't expect that every single one of them will cater to my tastes. In fact I've been a bit surprised as we've gone along and they HAVE all appealed to me. I do hope that you keep doing them, and I do hope to take advantage of them in the future.

This last one may have just been a perfect storm where some one thing - the economy, the season, the pricing, the selection, whatever - wasn't right for most of us, so in combination it made for a poor aggregate purchase.

Roy,

Reading through this thread and having in mind some of the comments elsewhere in other threads, I wonder if there is space for a variation on your Subscriber's Buying Opportunity. Could you negotiate some form of consolidated US offsite wine storage facility to allow people to store their wine in a proper, temperature controlled environment but in a way that allows folks to enjoy bulk rates rather than having to buy their own, small storage facilities? Provided the operator was willing to ship to a number of different locations, this might work.

Alex