For The Love Of Port

These prices are available only for this weekend - and are pre-arrival.

2007 Dow (pre-arrival) - 89.99
2007 Taylor (pre-arrival) - 49.99
2007 Taylor half bottle (pre-arrival) - 25.99

At the risk of asking what may be a dumb question, assuming these are VPs and not LBVPs, can anyone explain to me why they have not arrived yet?

Pre-arrival only means that Premier Cru doesn't have them yet. That could be for any number of reasons, one of which is sometimes that the wine hasn't been released yet. In this case it's probably because they bought out some large cellar and haven't yet received the proceeds, though it is also possible that they're getting a new shipment directly from the producer or importer.

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Thanks Glenn. This sounds somewhat like a tranche release from Bordeaux, normally with the intent of price manipulation.

These are all Vintage Ports. I'm pretty sure that they bought these in the UK and are waiting to ship them out, or they are on the water already.

And by the way -- Both Taylor's are sold out!

D'oh! The 2007 recommendation thread reminded me that I had no 2007 Taylor, and then I found this. Yeah! Then I read that it was sold out. Boo! Those were the good prices I was looking for. You snooze you lose.

Is the Dow worth $40 more per bottle just because of the JS score of 100 points ... or any other good reason?

Would appreciate YOUR thoughts, even more so if you have tried either or both of these 2007's. But if not ... then pure speculation will still be appreciated.

Roy Hersh wrote:Is the Dow worth $40 more per bottle just because of the JS score of 100 points ... or any other good reason?

Well, the Taylor sold out. The Dow still shows 24+ available.

While a 58% increase in price ($70 to $110) due to a perfect score on a vintage port release is cause for concern, such pricing pales by comparison to the the doubling or tripling of prices for comparable Bordeaux crus. I fondly recall the 2004 Ch. Pontet Canet for about $80. Good luck finding any later vintage of that wine for less than $150.

Ray Barnes wrote:While a 58% increase in price ($70 to $110) due to a perfect score on a vintage port release is cause for concern, such pricing pales by comparison to the the doubling or tripling of prices for comparable Bordeaux crus. I fondly recall the 2004 Ch. Pontet Canet for about $80. Good luck finding any later vintage of that wine for less than $150.

When was the last time you looked? In the UK, at least, 04 Pontet is still available at $80 (even at retail) and 06/08 are cheaper. 09/10 are, admittedly, more.

Dow 07 is on its way back down in the UK after its initial bump - i've seen a couple of cases go at release price recently, and there are cases just sitting long term unsold on lists at a 20-25% premium to release price, which suggests to me that there will be opportunities in the next 10-15 years to buy at a lower price.

I should have clarified my local market. The 2005 Pontet Canet was around triple the 2004 and the 2006 to 2008s wound up somewhere in the middle. The 2007 has been recently reduced to $119, so I have to correct my earlier point there as well. The 2009 is now being offered for $388.

Ouch. But i wouldn't be surprised to see prices on Bdx continue to retreat. At last Bonhams auction in London, case after case of "noughties" claret went unsold (perhaps 1 in 20 lots made it past their reserves). In fact, the auction only really came alive when they got to the magnums of 1927 Noval!

For me, it was an eye opener.

Roy Hersh wrote:Is the Dow worth $40 more per bottle just because of the JS score of 100 points ... or any other good reason?

I don't think so. Then again, I think both Dow and Taylor have inflated scores for 2007. They're both outstanding, but neither deserves a rating over 96 to me, and in both cases I think I'm usually in the 94 range.

Now if the Dow actually deserved that 100-point rating... then yes, I'd say it would be worth a $40 premium. Easily. But it's not a 100-point Port.

I hope you are correct on the claret price drop, and it is good to see interest in fine old vintage port at auction - certainly better value for the money.

Let's see - in the local market again, the 2009 Bordeaux First Growths are going for $1,999, and I think Petrus and Le Pin are even more. If you're going to be spending that kind of money on premium French red table wine, I would feel much happier getting 3 to 6 bottles of Vosne Romanee Grand Cru burgundies (and apart from anything made by DRC or Leroy are available with a bit of digging). Even the 1996 La Romanee can be found for about $500, a truly spectacular and rare bottle, not to mention cellared for 16 years.

And of course, there are some wonderful Douro wines for well under $100.

I'd expect Taylor and Fonseca to be priced higher than Dow or any Symington Port, but only a percent or two higher than Grahams. Dow should be least expensive of the four in any vintage.

Without in any way trying to contest the assertion, but simply because I am curious, I would like to know why Dow ought to cost less than Graham's, Taylor or Fonseca. Are there more bottles of Dow for sale in any given vintage?

Ray Barnes wrote:Without in any way trying to contest the assertion, but simply because I am curious, I would like to know why Dow ought to cost less than Graham's, Taylor or Fonseca. Are there more bottles of Dow for sale in any given vintage?

My shot from the hip pricing analysis of vintages.

Would love to hear from others if I am off base, but I consider in order from Symingtons; Grahams>Warre>Vesuvio>Dow from high to low in price. Nothing to do with quality or volume. I have no idea how much is made of one brand vs another on any given vintage.

Taylor and Fonseca both tend to be held in higher esteem than any of the Symington brands. I think you could make an argument for either Graham's or Dow's as the "#1" brand of the Symington stable, but to me they're equals. (Frankly, I think they're the equals of Taylor and Fonseca as well, but we're talking about general perception here and not Port geek perception.) Graham's seems to be the more consistent of the two brands - I find it more consistent than Taylor and Fonseca also - but it doesn't seem to reach the same highs as the other three in this discussion. Graham's doesn't have a 100-point Port to hold forth as its beacon of light. But it was far more consistently excellent throughout the 80s than the others (Dow being less inconsistent than Taylor or Fonseca).

Moses Botbol wrote:Grahams>Warre>Vesuvio>Dow from high to low in price.

Without resorting to WineSearcher, I'd guess that Graham, Dow, and Vesuvio are pretty close in price with Warre being less expensive. Vesuvio's average is probably lower than Graham's or Dow's, but that's at least in part (if not mostly) due to the fact that Vesuvio releases in non-Vintage years and is priced accordingly in those years.

Does anyone have an en primeur matrix for the last decade or so?