What IS Port fortified with, exactly?

Doug Zdanivsky · Post by **Doug Zdanivsky** » Mon Nov 07, 2005 5:50 pm

Is it just brandy?

Jason Brandt Lewis · Post by **Jason Brandt Lewis** » Mon Nov 07, 2005 9:41 pm

In the old days, it was brandy that had to be purchased through the goverment. And the government used to buy the cheapest brandy out there.

Now it's up to the producer . . . .

Doug Zdanivsky · Post by **Doug Zdanivsky** » Mon Nov 07, 2005 9:53 pm

So, the producer's put "name-brand" brandy in their Port?

Derek T. · Post by **Derek T.** » Tue Nov 08, 2005 12:40 am

It's not brandy - it's a spirit extracted from grapes that would be undrinkable on it's own.

What Jason is referring to is that the the institute used to control this spirit and everyone had to use what they were given. This ended when it was discovered that one of the vintages from the 70's had been produced using a cheap industrial spirit rather than the real grape spirit. Now each producer can make or buy there own spirit from wherever they choose so it is part of the individual style of the port.

Derek

Frederick Blais · Post by **Frederick Blais** » Tue Nov 08, 2005 7:47 am

Yes the producer can choose the aguardente( neutral alcool ) in the port but the IDVP will control the quality of it. So it has to meet some quality standard.

Jason Brandt Lewis · Post by **Jason Brandt Lewis** » Tue Nov 08, 2005 7:50 am

It's aguardiente -- which is brandy, but unaged (clear). And it used to be bought under contract by the authorities (originally from Portuguese sources, but often from Eastern Europe) until, as Derek rightly mentioned, it was discovered to be industrial spirit rather than grape brandy.

The change now opens a possibility that different shippers/producers, now using different sources, will discover that the addition of this spirit is yet one more variable that distinguishes X's wines from Y's.

Cheers,
Jason

Post by **Roy Hersh** » Tue Nov 08, 2005 9:32 am

Good question. The only other factor is that the aguardente for Port is at 77% while for Madeira it must be at 96%.

Doug Zdanivsky · Post by **Doug Zdanivsky** » Tue Nov 08, 2005 9:56 am

Wow, now I'm really confused..

Is that what brandy is, then? Grape "spirit"?

Which is right? One of you says it's grape spirit, which another says is NOT brandy, then someone else says this grape spirit synonymous with brandy..

Are you all right, and I'm still missing something, or is there a lack of consensus?

Thanks for your patience..

Post by **Andy Velebil** » Tue Nov 08, 2005 10:01 am

I'm a bit confused, I though Aguardente was a colorless grape spirit. In Mayson's book "Port and The Douro" it says "... colourless grape spirit known as aguardente (often erroneously referred to as "brandy")."

So, it is really a type of brandy, like I buy here in the US, or is it just commonly refered to as brandy.

Frederick Blais · Post by **Frederick Blais** » Tue Nov 08, 2005 10:24 am

Just commonly referred as Brandy, but it is definitively not the type you buy at the liquor store.

Doug Zdanivsky · Post by **Doug Zdanivsky** » Tue Nov 08, 2005 10:27 am

So is the type you buy in the store just a different strength?

IS brandy just grape extract?

Post by **Roy Hersh** » Tue Nov 08, 2005 10:27 am

It is a neutral spirit that comes from grapes and is commonly called brandy in English and Aguardente in Portuguese. There are sweet Aguardentes that are on the market and are a common drink in Portugal, especially down south and in Madeira too. It is NOT to be confused with the Brandy that is used in Cognac, or the type found on the shelves in the USA. It is a neutral spirit and akin to what American's think of as "moonshine" as it is a distilled product, although much lower in alc. than most old moonshine stuff.

Aguardente is distilled grapes, to simplify this whole topic.

Brandy can come from pears, apples, pineapples and a large variety of other fruits and of course ... grapes too. Cognac is brandy produced in the Cognac region of France (to further confuse things).

All Cognac is brandy, but not all Brandy is Cognac. I hope this helps.

Post by **Andy Velebil** » Tue Nov 08, 2005 11:05 am

Holy smokes Batman

Roy, thanks that cleared things up quite a bit. But Cognac is.....JUST KIDDING

Doug Zdanivsky · Post by **Doug Zdanivsky** » Tue Nov 08, 2005 11:15 am

Ok, that helped a bit..

I'll quit calling it "brandy".. :)

Paul_B · Post by **Paul_B** » Tue Nov 08, 2005 2:03 pm

Hi Roy,
I think Aguardente is not just grapes but also the stalks and seeds but I could be wrong. When I was a kid I saw some being made and it was the entire leftovers after the pressing. But that wasn't a commercial brand I saw it was more "home-made" type so maybe the guy was just cheap.

I think what distinguishes these strong spirits is;
some are distilled wine only,
some are distilled pressed grape skins only (grappa)
some are distilled pressed grapes, stalks, seeds everything but the wine(aguardente).

then the distilled cereals, fruits, molasses, sugar cane brings us other stuff like Rhum, Vodka, Scotch, bourbon, whisky etc..

But I could be very wrong here.

One thing is certain, it is a new variable to play with when making port. And some brands are using this component to more or less good results.

Wish it was all the same stuff across all brands.

cheers
paba

Post by **Roy Hersh** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 5:26 pm

Paba,

When the Portuguese controlled the Aguardente purchases by the Port shippers, there were many issues that were not to the advantage of the buyers. Monopolization of an industry is not healthy, but I won't get into that trap here.

The producers and Shippers of Port are MUCH HAPPIER now that the shackles are removed and there is nothing from stopping anyone from buying Aguardente on the open market. Of course to prevent scandals (from reoccuring) the IVDP does maintain organoleptic and chemical analysis tests of all spirits that are used in ANY Port to be commercially released.