NYC's Best Restaurant Wine List Values
Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 10:20 pm
Forum for Port, Madeira & Portuguese Wines
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That is a good deal for a restaurant, wow.Lindsay E. wrote:2013 Ch. Musar jaune $44 ($11/ glass pour) Unbelievable!!
Which Italian restaurants specifically, Moses? Thanks!Moses Botbol wrote:We can see some great deals at times in Boston. Many restaurants have invested over the years in their cellars and it shows. Especially the case with Italian restaurants. They seem to understand the idea of building a cellar than do the local steak houses. Most steakhouses around here do not invest in wine, so everything us just what the distributors are selling at present.
We did see some good deals at Capital Grille in Boston when we went about a month or so. Several good bottles under $40; from Italy and France.
Here are two in Waltham, both on Main St; the opposite ends of the street. Both are great. La Campania has a little better atmosphere. Il Capriccio's wines go back further, but La Campania has more regions, more unique stuff. Both have many gems on there. This year we bought Giacosa Nero d'Alba or Selvapiana Chianti for $40ishSteve Pollack wrote:Which Italian restaurants specifically, Moses? Thanks!Moses Botbol wrote:We can see some great deals at times in Boston. Many restaurants have invested over the years in their cellars and it shows. Especially the case with Italian restaurants. They seem to understand the idea of building a cellar than do the local steak houses. Most steakhouses around here do not invest in wine, so everything us just what the distributors are selling at present.
We did see some good deals at Capital Grille in Boston when we went about a month or so. Several good bottles under $40; from Italy and France.
Not to be wet blanket, but 2x normal retail on a current vintage isn't what I'd call a good deal, that's pretty standard. If you're much above that, you're just raping and pillaging. If you're much below that, then we can talk about how good a deal it is. Perhaps I'm a bit spoiled not having lived in major cities though.Andy Velebil wrote:That is a good deal for a restaurant, wow.Lindsay E. wrote:2013 Ch. Musar jaune $44 ($11/ glass pour) Unbelievable!!
You are spoiled. Down here mark-ups are usually around the 3x range. I've never understood that. Restaurants, if they lowered prices, could easily make it up in volume. I can recall more times I passed on getting a glass or bottle of wine at lunch or dinner because the prices were just insane. When a single glass is 1/2 the price of the bottle at retail there is a problem.Bradley Bogdan wrote:Not to be wet blanket, but 2x normal retail on a current vintage isn't what I'd call a good deal, that's pretty standard. If you're much above that, you're just raping and pillaging. If you're much below that, then we can talk about how good a deal it is. Perhaps I'm a bit spoiled not having lived in major cities though.Andy Velebil wrote:That is a good deal for a restaurant, wow.Lindsay E. wrote:2013 Ch. Musar jaune $44 ($11/ glass pour) Unbelievable!!
That said, Musar Jaune is usually solid QPR at retail and a really nicely made wine. Haven't tried the 2013 though.
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Would agree. I look for about 1.5x retail when combing over the list.Bradley Bogdan wrote:Not to be wet blanket, but 2x normal retail on a current vintage isn't what I'd call a good deal, that's pretty standard.Andy Velebil wrote:That is a good deal for a restaurant, wow.Lindsay E. wrote:2013 Ch. Musar jaune $44 ($11/ glass pour) Unbelievable!!
Now THAT is a screaming deal!Moses Botbol wrote:Would agree. I look for about 1.5x retail when combing over the list.Bradley Bogdan wrote:Not to be wet blanket, but 2x normal retail on a current vintage isn't what I'd call a good deal, that's pretty standard.Andy Velebil wrote: That is a good deal for a restaurant, wow.
1970 Croft for $50, is that -1.5x cost?
Yeah those are the times when I'll just bring a bottle, assuming corkage isn't insane as well. I figure even if I'm not bringing something crazy, $20 on a $30 bottle is better than $80 for a similar $30 bottle off their list, which defeats the point of putting together a list. Unfortunately, the majority of folks buying a bottle have no clue as to retail price, so I'm guessing silly markups have less of an impact on bottom lines than we might hope.Andy Velebil wrote:You are spoiled. Down here mark-ups are usually around the 3x range. I've never understood that. Restaurants, if they lowered prices, could easily make it up in volume. I can recall more times I passed on getting a glass or bottle of wine at lunch or dinner because the prices were just insane. When a single glass is 1/2 the price of the bottle at retail there is a problem.Bradley Bogdan wrote:Not to be wet blanket, but 2x normal retail on a current vintage isn't what I'd call a good deal, that's pretty standard. If you're much above that, you're just raping and pillaging. If you're much below that, then we can talk about how good a deal it is. Perhaps I'm a bit spoiled not having lived in major cities though.Andy Velebil wrote: That is a good deal for a restaurant, wow.
That said, Musar Jaune is usually solid QPR at retail and a really nicely made wine. Haven't tried the 2013 though.
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I don't believe that is necessarily true. If it's a wine they've heard of, they should have a general idea on the retail. One thing a restaurant can do is serve wines most people are unfamiliar with. This works in a regional cuisine restaurant, but not in a steakhouse or continental food. Those places need to serve familiar wine.Bradley Bogdan wrote:Unfortunately, the majority of folks buying a bottle have no clue as to retail price, so I'm guessing silly markups have less of an impact on bottom lines than we might hope.
We went to a restaurant in Montreal that had an all Canadien wine list; was pretty cool.Eric Menchen wrote:Recently ate at a place that had all organic and biodynamic wines. Yeah, I was unfamiliar with just about all of them. And I was underwhelmed by my choice.
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Hmmm, I must admit I know nothing about those other than ice wines. So were they good?Moses Botbol wrote:We went to a restaurant in Montreal that had an all Canadien wine list; was pretty cool.
Well, we had one bottle from Western Canada, a Syrah that was a lighter style and very elegant. We both liked it. I don't remember the name. Most Canadian wines are on the lighter side so the restaurant is said, which is fine by me. I would buy the wine we had if I saw it for sale.Eric Menchen wrote:Hmmm, I must admit I know nothing about those other than ice wines. So were they good?Moses Botbol wrote:We went to a restaurant in Montreal that had an all Canadien wine list; was pretty cool.
Steakhouses like Capital Grille in particular do not invest in wines, they just buy whatever is being distributed currently. They don't have the facility or inclination to hold wine for years or decades.Lindsay E. wrote:The big corporate restaurants/steakhouses probably don't have an incentive to lower the price because the people buying the expensive bottle are probably either wealthy enough to where they don't care about what a restaurant is charging, or they are expensing the dinner on the company card.
You can't bring a bottle to a restaurant in Colorado. And no, I haven't really found any good wine value restaurants, so I rarely buy bottles in restaurants around here. When a bottle is called for, I try to find something that isn't too unreasonable.Lindsay E. wrote:Eric - Will Colorado even allow you to bring your own bottle? I'd like to see that law changed if it hasn't been already. What do you do about the problem in Colorado? Have you found any good wine value restaurants in Boulder or Denver?
The closest I've come to finding a "wine value" in Colorado was a restaurant that had Chiarli premium lambruscco by the glass for $11. While the price seemed steep, the actual wine was so damn good, and so food friendly (and refreshing during the middle of summer) that it seemed like a value at the time. Wine is not cheap in CO, not even at big retail stores. For that reason, I usually schlep a lot of wine in my luggage when I come, and usually stick to liquor and specialty beer when I go to restaurants in Denver and Boulder.Eric Menchen wrote:You can't bring a bottle to a restaurant in Colorado. And no, I haven't really found any good wine value restaurants, so I rarely buy bottles in restaurants around here. When a bottle is called for, I try to find something that isn't too unreasonable.Lindsay E. wrote:Eric - Will Colorado even allow you to bring your own bottle? I'd like to see that law changed if it hasn't been already. What do you do about the problem in Colorado? Have you found any good wine value restaurants in Boulder or Denver?