Roy Hersh wrote:Do you folks have ANY idea how many millions of cases of white Zinfandel was sold by Beringer, Mondavi and especially Sutter Home during the rage years? It would floor you!
My wife contributed greatly to that trend. She still buys the occasional white Zinfandel because it is her favorite blush wine.
I probably won't drink much (if any) pink port, but if it helps expand awareness of Port then I'm all for it. Sometimes it takes a new product to draw attention to your old wares even if the old wares are what people really should be buying.
Coke Zero, anyone? Otherwise known as Diet Coke for Boys?
I was open minded about attracting new port drinkers but I drew the line on port and lemonade and some of those other concoctions. :?
I appreciate your insights about the Beringer "white zin" whatever that really was ? Did they blend a red and a white? Is there really a white zin?
What is in pink port?
Marks and Spencer must know what they are doing introducing this in Februrary. I would wager that extensive market research went into it.
If the Intended demographics are not the U.S. ( Canada I doubt ) I think that is too bad .
If there ever was an untapted market ( Québec as well ) , this is It .
Vintage avant jeunesse/or the other way around . . .
Roy has sent me a note and asked me to contribute to the debate as it was my idea to create this product.
It clearly has produced some divided opinions as I am sure that the introduction of LBV did back in 1970.
About three years ago I thought that we should make a rosé style of Port which could be appealing to new Port consumers who were not so comfortable with some of the traditional Port stereotypes. I accept that this is some distance from the great vintage Ports that we make but rosé products do exist in other wine categories and they are popular.
The project has been on a twin track. Firstly, there has been the need to get in recognised by the IVDP (the Port Industry regulator) as the category of a rosé was never envisaged (innovation, by definition, will run into this problem). Secondly it was to make the Port - a task that I handed to my head winemaker David Guimaraens and his team.
The IVDP has accepted the product when described as a light ruby as the legal category of rosé Port still does not exist. We have trademarked the word Pink in relation to Port so that this becomes a brand under which we can sell 'Port'. That is to say that Pink Port conforms to all the legal requirements to allow it to be described as a Port; we have defined it through the use of the word Pink. For this reason it is 19.5 abv and has 94 gms of residual sugar.
The photograph of our blending room does show that we experimented with different alcohol levels but the best we found was to use 19.5 abv. We also experimented with different ways of making it and found the best to be a pressing to extract colour, without astringent tannins, a cold settling before a temperature controlled fermentation at 15 degrees centigrade. This has preserved the freshness of the fruit and ensures the elegence. The grape varities used as the same as any of our red Ports.
In marketing terms our interest is to produce a new style of Port that will attract new consumers, many of whom might be women. We are also looking to de-seasonalise Port as consumption in many markets is more focussed around Christmas. Efforts with Aged Tawny to de-seasonalise have worked but we can always do more.
The future of the Port industry will certainly be helped by introducing new consumers and by continuing to innovate. The Fladgate Partnership has been resonsible for 73% of the total industry growth in special category Ports over the last decade. The remaining players in the industry just 27%, which explains why they are now switching so much attention to table wine and why we are maintaining our focus on Port. This focus does not preclude innovation.
In the UK our research suggests that we will have good demand for Pink and I decided to offer a version to Marks & Spencer as we make all their Port. Marks & Spencer do not sell any branded Ports but are a major player in the UK Port market; they are also very receptive to innovation.
The launch has been timed in many markets to coincide with Valentines Day - a day not always (as yet) associated with Port. This introduction to consumers will then allow the build into the summer for Pink Port and does not cannibalize the winter sales of more full bodied styles of Ports. This way I hope that we will help consumers to understand the differences not add to their confusion over what Port to buy.
If you have not been able to taste it yet then I hope you will not have to wait too long - it is being rolled out in a number of markets over the coming weeks. Try it with an open mind and if you don't like it then stick to the style of Port/producer that you do enjoy - I accept that it is not to everyone's taste.
I am also happy to answer any questions that people might have.
Thank you very much for taking the time from your busy schedule to stop by the forum and giving us some insight has to how this type of Port came about and how its being made and marketed.
I do have a couple of questions....
1- Is the IVDP considering a new category of Port for this or others? As you stated, they will allow this to be considered a Light Ruby for now, but I assume the ABV of Pink has to be in the normal Port range to meet the definition of a Port. We've discussed on this forum before our belief that the IVDP needs to expand the very narrow categories that exist now.
2- Is it coming to the USA?
As many of us here very much love the traditional (or old-school shall I say) side of Port, sometimes we do lose track that most of the world drinks the lesser priced rubies and tawny's and not older VP's and colheita's. We end up unfairly knocking some of the lower end Ports because our palates have evolved. But when I first started getting into Ports I was drinking mainly the basic tawny's and rubies. Of course, then I had my first two VP's (1966 and 1970 Taylor's) and the rest was history :)
Now, I wonder how this would do as a Port-tonic.......
The creation of a new category requires primary legislation and the Parliament is busy at the moment so I suspect that they will wait to see if it is a success before they move. However, in establishing what is a good rosé Port we have taken them through extensive tastings and shown them how it should not be made (blending red and white). The quality of the spirit used is very important - many aguadentes used have a rough edge - we are using the same quality as we use for our vintage Ports.
The ABV is the same as Port at 19.5 - many Ports are 20 +/-0.5 and vintage is normally adjusted to 20.5.
Our regulator is constantly monitoring the sector and has recently moved the reserve Ports into special category.
Yes, it will be in the USA. The initial roll out is in Texas and New York then to be followed elsewhere.
Firstly, I aplaud you for putting your head above the wall here. Something that not many of your colleagues in the industry have chosen to do, especially where a controversial issue is being discussed.
On the Pink, I think apart from yourself I am the only one to have tasted it that is involved in this discussion. If you have read my previous posts in this thread and elsewhere you will no doubt have worked out that I am not a fan of your new product. I accept that others will enjoy it as different people have different tastes.
My main issue here is that I don't think the Pink is close enough in style, smell or flavour profile to attract new consumers into drinking the more traditional styles of port. To my taste and other senses I don't think I would identify it as a fortified wine if served blind.
Was there a specific intention to make this smell, feel and taste like a Rose wine? If so, could you please explain how it is you believe this will encourage people to begin buying your other products?
Its been great to read the balanced responces from Adrian and Roy to this topic.Thanks for your inputs to open up the debate.
As i mentioned,through my Wset course we had a tasting of fortified wines with Richard Mayson and can i say it was very good.....and thanks if he lurks in on this debate.
One of the wines we tasted was indeed the Crofts Pink Port....as a group we thought it perhaps a little too high in alcohol for the market it might have been aimed at.We guessed younger and perhaps women.The colour being a bit confected was we thought balanced by the bottle shape which was modern in style.On the palate the fruit was there but muted and on the whole a modern style........come up to the 21st century guys......type of wine.
Did we like it.........as a port .....no....
Will it sell.....to an age group.......for sure it will..
In the UK anyway
This is my first major post on here so go gently on me.... :?
Best Wishes
Nigel
Roy
Richard sends his regards....and laughed when i asked him about the gentleman farmer retort....top guy...great speaker...not long enough..
While I have not tasted it yet but will so do when it arrives here in Texas,
if it does not taste like a fortified wine as Derek says , and if it is more of a quaffing wine , a cocktail party wine like the knock back blush wines of wine bars, then at 19.5 % alcohol, the average wine drinker is going to get a lot more alcohol in 2-3 glasses.
Is this designed to be a slow sipping beverage like VP?
If not that percentage of alcohol concerns me a bit especially if the target market is a younger group.
Richard Henderson wrote:
If not that percentage of alcohol concerns me a bit especially if the target market is a younger group.
Richard,
Its still less in alcohol than most of the drinks young people are drinking today. Such as RedBull and Vodka, Sour apple maritini's, and lets not forget the old standby at parties...keg stands! I know that from first hand experience as I am still active with my old college fraternity chapter and my full-time job.
Younger people are going to drink, no matter what the ABV is. All they care about is two things...is it drinkable and affordable. Sadly thats just the facts of life and hopefully they don't do anything too stupid. The realistic part is a small percentage will do something stupid and get themselves, or others, hurt...or worse.
Andy beat me to it. I was thinking of the alcohol level of most drinks with Vodka, Tequila, Gin, Rum etc. and it makes Port look like a shy flower by comparison. But Richard is forgiven, as he is on a straight diet of Port and who can fault him for that?
Adrian,
Thanks for stopping by and posting and clearing up some talking points!
I said it is a "concern", not all out oppostion . I am fully aware in my profession as an attorney that there is alcohol abuse by the young ( and old) and there are those who are going to get drunk without thinking too much about how the alcohol is presented.
The concern is , there may be more alcohol in the pink port than one expects.
I too was once young and survived by the grace of God. There were times when I unexpectedly had too much when the powerful spirits, "ever clear" were spiked in the pina coladas etc.
I think newbies to pink port need to be aware that it is not an ordinary 10-14% glass of wine. While it is not everclear, there are spirits fortifying the pink port, increasing its alcohol level.
We advocate responsible use of alcohol on this board and we are all too keenly aware of the forces of prohibition out there who would ban even responsible moderate imbibing.
When there is a concern, I hope we feel free to express it.
It's interesting from the taste descriptors that Derek puts out that this wine might have a shot.
At every tasting all of my fiances girlfriends will always comment on how cough syrup like port tastes. To which effect I had to grab the decanter of 83 fonseca/70 sandeman/77 warres away immediately.
It pains me to see non empty glasses of such sitting on the tasting table afterwards.
From my observation I believe alot of it hasn't to do with the sweetness but rather the "weight" or "effervescence" of the wine.
White Zins are so popular because they were sweet (not overly) and very refreshing. It was like drinking an adult version of sprite. And people felt sophisticated because they were drinking "wine".
My observation is usually confirmed when the German/Alsacian Rieslings are usually the favorite amongst the ladies whenever I have a house party and I lay out well over 20 different types of varietals/styles/regions.
I wouldn't mind checking this out here in ny. If anything, i can add strawberries, reduce it as syrup for an ice cream.
I understand that the majority of Port purists dont seem to like this new drink. That's fine. I haven't tried it, so I cant say.
However, as I said in my Post regarding how you can attract a younger crowd to Port, this is an attempt at a mass market, entry level, port based drink. It will live or die by the general public passing its judgement. The experts will affect the initial take-up, but will not make the final decision. As purists, you and they, may not be able to see the woods for the trees.
If TFG get it's fingers burnt on this one, and it may be a great success, but if it isn't, they should dust themselves down, work out budgets, and launch the next prototype. Eventually some Port producer will stumble across a entry level winner. The profits from that wil be remarkable, so it's worth trying.
If I handed around a glass of Blue Wicked, Ice and Port (Cheeky Vimto), at one of our Tastings, I'd be heavily abused and ridiculed. Yet I could have walked you into several fashionable town centres Pubs and Wine Bars near me, last summer, and every 10th person had it in their hand. Somewhere out there is a 'Bacardi Breezer' or a 'Voodoo' (Red Bull and Vodka), that is Port Based. When they find it, the purists will tut, and shake their heads. The Port Industry will make millions.
Alan C. wrote:
If I handed around a glass of Blue Wicked, Ice and Port (Cheeky Vimto), at one of our Tastings, I'd be heavily abused and ridiculed. Yet I could have walked you into several fashionable town centres Pubs and Wine Bars near me, last summer, and every 10th person had it in their hand. Somewhere out there is a 'Bacardi Breezer' or a 'Voodoo' (Red Bull and Vodka), that is Port Based. When they find it, the purists will tut, and shake their heads. The Port Industry will make millions.
Alan
totally agree.. but notice all the drinks you mentioned were fizzy =)
instead of pink port, they need to make a pink fizzy port =)
Alan C. wrote:Somewhere out there is a 'Bacardi Breezer' or a 'Voodoo' (Red Bull and Vodka), that is Port Based. When they find it, the purists will tut, and shake their heads. The Port Industry will make millions.
Personally, I think that drink is already out there, it's just not getting enough attention.
My wife has introduced all of her female friends to the Port Tonic and every single one of them has loved it (except, understandably, for the one who doesn't like tonic).
We had never heard of the drink before we went to Portugal, and when we ask for it back here in the states we get blank stares from bartenders. It's a great drink, and if you use a sweeter white Port to make one it fits that female flavor profile exceptionally well.
As someone involved in marketing a product almost every day, I can say that it's possible to do yourself more harm by launching a bad campaign or product than it is by doing nothing. While I haven't tasted this wine, the descriptions I'm reading are such that I suspect that this product has as much of a chance of driving more people away from port as it does bringing new people to it.
I can appreciate the desire to equate this product's launch to the launch of White Zinfandel and what it did to help the wine industry, but as they say in the south, that dog don't hunt. The advantage that White Zinfandel had was that it still tasted like a table wine, but easier to drink because of its flavor profile. Based on what I've read, Pink Port doesn't have that going for it.
Adrian, with all due respect, if you wanted to draw more customers to Portuguese wines, you should have made a rose version of a dry table wine. That would be more likely to succeed, in my opinion. I truly wish you the best of luck with this, because as a dedicated port lover, I want to see you succeed. I only hope that this doesn't set your cause back even further.
She still buys the occasional white Zinfandel because it is her favorite blush wine.
:? 
