Pink Port launched to mixed reaction - [www.harpers.co.uk]

[Richard Henderson]

"Fizzy" usually indicates a secondary fermentation which can happen with any wine as some hearty yeasts survive the increases of alcohol during fermentation and start the second fermentation in the bottle . The fizz is from CO2 in the fermentation process, as happens with champagne. It is not a good thing in non-bubbly wines. It would seem unlikely to have a secondary fermentation with a fortification from brandy in the port making process which is designed to kill the yeast, leaving some residual sugar.

If a secondary fermentation is occuring, it is a true puzzlement.

[Derek T.]

Full marks to ADV!

The bottle had been chilled for days but had been removed from the fridge for a few hours before I drew the cork.

I haven't witnessed this phenomenon before but trust ADVs explanation as I know that he always has a few bottles in the fridge in case of emergencies

[Richard Henderson]

Derek, I understand a little pressure from changed temps on the ambient gases. Fizz in the wine I don't understand.

[guilherme]

Indeed, gas from the wine, from a fortified one, would be quite a major concern. Something terribely bad would had been done at winemaking.

Guilherme

[Derek T.]

I can only assume that the gas was pressurized air.

I fun not dryevy and fizz in the wine.

Derek

[guilherme]

Anyway, a sort of wine " to lay down and avoid".

A bad first step to what was (is) intended to be a "new category"
of Port. This prototype "deu xabú" (got wrong). Cash the Valentine and forget.

Guilherme

[guilherme]

At leaat there will be no embarrasment at the Factory HOuse.
Women do not come to the lunch, so women's wine neither.

Guilherme

[Tom Archer]

Indeed, gas from the wine, from a fortified one, would be quite a major concern.

This has been observed before on a defective bottle of VP.

I'm trying to remember who it was who noted it.. :?

Tom

[Derek T.]

I fun not dryevy and fizz in the wine.

This demonstrates the hazards of posting on the forum using a BlackBerry whilst in a business meeting and not checking what you have written

What I meant to say was "I did not detect any fizz in the wine"

Derek

[Al B.]

I fun not dryevy and fizz in the wine.

This demonstrates the hazards of posting on the forum using a BlackBerry whilst in a business meeting and not checking what you have written

What I meant to say was "I did not detect any fizz in the wine"

Derek

Derek,
Don't worry. We just put this down to the effects of the pink port on your little grey cells and excused you.

[guilherme]

Well ... seens that the Brits also didn't like the thing.

Was told that Jancis Robinson wasn't much praised with
this.

Roy, had You finaly tasted it ? TN please !

I'm still waiting for Mr. Bridge to send a sample to Brazil ...

Guilherme

[Frederick Blais]

I did not read the entire replies from everyone in this thread. I hope I don't write too much something that has already been written.

I've tasted the wine 2 times in Portugal in the Croft version. The main difference between Mark & Spencer pink port and the Croft is the blend selection. TFP did a good amount of pink port, M&S did choose what would be more or so his final blend for his market. Then they did the Croft one.

The major issue with this port was to be able to make it enjoyable and with no dominant taste of alcool as there is not as much concentration to mask it compared to red Ports. For that they seeked the best arguadente possible on the market. They ended up using even better one that they use for VP. It is a tour de force to achieve to make a Pink Port, but unfortunately we can't really taste the effort as the quality for an amateur is not present in the drink.

I've tasted it chilled at Vinologia and at room temperature at Fonseca's lodges. About the structure and component, I can say that both experience were very similar. The port has a very sweet impression on the palate, though the sugar level is similar to other Ports, simple on the palate, some alcool showing on the finish. On the flavours side, it was different depending on the temperature, showing a lot more of grapefruit flavours at room temperature vs wild strawberries flavour a little chilled.

My verdict is that I'll probably never buy this. Even to receive guests. First because I don't really like it, but I can say it is well made for Pink Port, just not my taste. Second I believe you can find something else in a different region of the world that is more interesting for the same price.

Now, I do think it is an interesting product on the market. It is not intend for amateur of classic port but mainly to diversify the market. So instead of having a beer or martini on a terrasse, someone might order a Pink Port. It is a fashionable product, seeing it this way, it is quite an achievement.

It is a necessity to break rules, barrier and innovate in different ways to always improve port visibility. It is not because 1 product is not intend to give intellectual pleasure that it should be turn down. 2 thumbs up to Taylor for continuous effort in this path.

[guilherme]

Sorry, I cannot agrre with the end, Frederick.

Everybody that tastet it ,disliked a lot - waiting for Roy's TN. And we see that the wine doesn't even have Port character and does not meet to good Port standards. I am pretty sure that people at TFP knows how to taste ... and are not surprised for the reactions about this stuff.

Inovation is quite diferent from launching a product that will jeopardize
the image of Port.

"Pink Port" ? Whatever,ok, an innovation; but with a decent wine !

Or is it an attempt to begin a sort of germam blue bottles strategy ? Everybody knows how that ended.

Guilherme

[Frederick Blais]

What I can tell you is that the people at the TFP are quite aware of the critics down here. They don't really mind. As said above this product is not intended for us, it is for a totally different market.

When I told them I did not like it, they were not that surprised but wished I could found something more to say about it. It is not a bad wine, but it is not Port, I 100% agree here. But so is 95% of all the white ports on the market too, but with time it got accepted, drinks were invented to enhance it etc. The faith of this Pink port is not yet decided "but my heart tells me it still has a part to play" (had to quote this )

[*thadayFeart]

Derek's comment is right on the money in my opinion.

Product innovation is great but not at the cost of the image of the entire category. TFG may make some money moving cases of this stuff in the short term, but what about the image of their Vintage Ports, particularly Croft? Its like Mercedes and Smart cars - they sold a heap, but hurt the image of their luxury cars.

Port is not and never should be Pink.

[Tom Archer]

What I can tell you is that the people at the TFP are quite aware of the critics down here. They don't really mind.

Whoa!

If true, then TFP have a critical attitude problem. The day a winemaker ceases to care what people think about his products is the day that the rot sets in.

We have yet to see a note from anyone endorsing this juice as a worthy drink, and given the tendency of most of the commentators to give the benefit of the doubt, that is pretty damning.

As I have mentioned before on this thread, every business makes mistakes from time to time - it happens.

But if a business is too arrogant to accept the truth and deal with the reality when a mistake has been made, their commercial prospects start to look bleak.

Tom

[Andy Velebil]

Now, I do think it is an interesting product on the market. It is not intend for amateur of classic port but mainly to diversify the market. So instead of having a beer or martini on a terrasse, someone might order a Pink Port. It is a fashionable product, seeing it this way, it is quite an achievement.

Fred is 100% right here. I know many of you are not in the USA, but if you could see what some of the cheap wines have done for sales in the wine business, its staggering.

White zinfandel is a prime example when it came out. It sucks, no way around that...but it jumped started a sagging wine industry in the US. Why? because it just happened to catch on and got many people hooked on wine. Some of those graduated to better wine and some did not, but the point is OVERALL the wine industry here got a massive jump start to sales and SOME people graduated to better wine. Those that didn't graduate to drinking better wine still by the same cheap stuff....which they never would have if not for their early exposure to it. either way its a win-win for the wine industry here.

Understand that Pink Port is NOT MADE FOR US, the knowledgeable wine geeks that we are.

People have different tastes. After all how many times have you seen people drinking totally cheap wine, that you and I would spit out, and they say they love it.

[Frederick Blais]

What I can tell you is that the people at the TFP are quite aware of the critics down here. They don't really mind.

Whoa!

If true, then TFP have a critical attitude problem. The day a winemaker ceases to care what people think about his products is the day that the rot sets in.

We have yet to see a note from anyone endorsing this juice as a worthy drink, and given the tendency of most of the commentators to give the benefit of the doubt, that is pretty damning.

As I have mentioned before on this thread, every business makes mistakes from time to time - it happens.

But if a business is too arrogant to accept the truth and deal with the reality when a mistake has been made, their commercial prospects start to look bleak.

Tom

Tom they don't care because they expect that reaction from Port geek, we are not the customers they are aiming.

Just like if I'd ask you how you like the new Eminem music album. I don't think it would be a revelant critic.

[guilherme]

Ponk is not made for us...

Shouldn'd be made for nobody. It's a lousy beverage.

Taylor made for the cheap sweety liquor market.

Whoever respects PORT would never label such a thing and
neither any bad wine as "Port".

Remember many accusations against some "portuguese" houses
for marketing low quality Port at bargain prices ... Now it's not
a portuguese house. So, all right ? Come on ! It's not pink neither anything. It's a cheap liquor,selling on "Port" name.

Guilherme

[Al B.]

I have long defended the rights of port producers to design and market products for particular groups of buyers. I believe that it is right and appropriate for the market to decide whether a product works or not.

Cruz make and market a vintage port that sells in the UK for £8-10 a bottle. It must sell reasonably well as the supermarket chain that stock this particular shipper's wines would soon discount it and cut it from their range, using the shelf space for something more profitable if it did not sell.

I rarely buy this particular port as I would rather spend a few pounds more and get a bottle that I enjoy quite a lot more, but I will vigorously defend the right of Cruz to make large quantities of soft, easy drinking and early maturing vintage ports to sell to those customers they have identified as wanting this particular style. It is not wrong that they do this, simply that I am not one of their target market.

If you asked the wine-makers and sales managers at Cruz whether they were concerned that the perception on this forum was against their products, they would probably not be too worried. They are not trying to sell to us, but perhaps to the people we once were - before we learnt to trade up.

I see Pink Port as exactly the same. It's not aimed at us, our opinions are not relevant. Most of the people we share drinks with will not be the target market. Will I buy some - no. Will my friends - perhaps. However, if there are people in the world who decide to try pink port as a new drink then I think that is a good thing for two reasons:

(1) this diversifies the product offer without cannabilising from existing port markets, so helping to sustain the industry; and

(2) this may generate a new route for people to grow to appreciate a vintage port.

When I think of the wines that I used to drink early in my wine drinking life (Blue Nun, Black Tower etc.) I shudder. How on earth did I make the jump from Blue Nun to Mouton Rothschild 1982? I have no idea, but the fact is that drinking some wine led me to trade up and drink better wine, and then better wine and so on until I ended up where I am today. Perhaps Pink Port will capture a new and young generation of port drinkers not currently interested in vintage port but who - through the association with the name and brand and perception of "Vintage Port is the top quality marque in the range" - move on to the more serious styles of port. The fact that Pink Port is so very different in style from vintage port is not necessarily relevant to this process. Before you criticise the idea, think back to the first couple of years of your wine-drinking life and what you drank then and what you drink today. I would guess that many of us will be surprised at the difference in style and cost of what we drink today compared to what we drank yesterday.

So, all power to TFP. I hope the venture succeeds and that in 20 years time we see a generation of port drinkers who have joined us from this new and novel route. I will likely not buy any Pink Port at all - but then I don't buy white port either!

Alex