For The Love Of Port

How often to you buy Port/Madeira from auction?

Is your experience of auctions mostly positive or otherwise?

Have you found that the bottles you've purchased at auction were of solid provenance?

Compared to retail are the prices typically better when you figure out the total cost of buying at auction and is the quality generally good, better or less so than buying at retail?

Your opinion counts!

I don't know about the quality, which has me at least a little concerned given what I thought was a great price, but I just bought my first bottle in an online auction:
Kopke 1960 - $70 + 14% buyers premium
http://www.winebid.com/buy_wine/item_de ... 1471-K2752
wine-searcher only turned up one merchant that wanted $275 for this, so it seemed like it was worth the risk.

I put in some bids last week at The Chicago Wine Company, but didn't win anything.

Although I haven't purchased many at auction, the few that I have acquired were fine. I suppose the near indestructability of Madeira makes the issue of provenance less critical compared to other types of wine.

In general, I find that Madeiras that are (reasonably) readily available at retail to be better bargains at retail (thank you Mr Berk) than at auction. However, given the current state of the economy, I suspect this might change in the future. I think the Dow just went below 7000 today... woe is my 401K...

I have made a few purchases at auction in the US, but I tend to go for less well-known brands when I'm "shopping" auctions. I guess I figure that a) the less well-known brands are cheaper to begin with, and b) I don't expect as much from them so am not as likely to be disappointed by a bad bottle.

I buy quite often at auction. It really pays to know trends however. The magazine "The World of Fine Wine" carries an excellent overview of the auction trends. Sometimes you can get excellent bargins, especially if you stay away from the blue chips. I tend to buy mainly fortified wines, but have gotten quite a bit of table wines as well. I've been quite happy but have dealt only with the larger reputable auction houses.

I tend to buy virtually most all of my Port & Madeira at auction. I am a pretty serious bargain and patient shopper however. Many times I am bummed to not have my minimum bids secure Port lots, but if you wait long enough, they come around again. Recently i just bought a few bottles retailed via email/website as prices are relaxing a bit towards the lower end/minimum bid range for many VP's.

I suspect this trend to continue for the next year, so i am holding off for a few more months to see what happens. But like my occssional stock market buys every few weeks during these economic times, I suspect I will do the same with Port and table wine buying as well!

So answers to the actual questions: Experience has been 100% satisfaction to date. Btls all seem very sound provenance, or exactly what is noted--label conditions, etc. Prices are always better than what I see at retail as i am a minimum bidder (or just above) and prices are especially cheaper for Colheitas and aged tawnies.

I thought when I opened a wine bar, that my Port hunting days were over and that "wholesale" prices were my golden ticket to more VP. I was wrong :!: Maybe it is my Alaska market, but I can buy retail and add $8/btl shipping and still come ou way ahead on my auction Port buying. So the never ending search continues :?

Scott,

$8 per bottle shipping is steep but I do understand. However for just a few dollars more I can get wine shipped from So. Africa or Portugal. YOU are actually in the USA ... but I do realize the distance. Do you ever get down here to the lower 48?

Yeah, I get down there and usually treck alot of wine back up with me. Now the shipping has relaxed a bit for two day air to around $5-6/btl. In the short spring-fall we can get it shipped far cheaper by barge, but sometimes I just have to have those November purchses two-day shipped since I can't wait until April.

Ta'dah! Congrats Scott on the 40,000th post.

What did I win????? heheeeheeeee just kiddin'


Congrats to Roy & FTLOP :!: :!: :!:

The auctions have been disappointing the last few months. I think sellers are holding back their inventory and hammer prices have been higher than the current economy would suggest. The amount of Port & Madeira lots have dwindled, and even some of the dry wine hammer prices aren't as low as I would think in today's climate.

The last few years I have bought a lot at auction, but the last one I did was in November.

Moses,
I agree the past few weeks have seen dismal offerings of Ports and regular wines at auction. I think this is a temporary thing though. As prior it was people starting to get hit financially and they got rid of some of their overstock bottles, then the lull we're seeing now as people re-asses their situation. I'd give it another month or two then I can bet there will be a lot of selling-off happening as the economy gets worse and people can no longer afford not to sell in order to raise capital. time will sure tell.

You know though, I was thinking I began to see less Port at auction a while back, even before the economy started tanking. I almost rarely have seen any colheita offered in well over a year.

Perhaps I should start a new thread, but I was wondering what people thought of the various different auctioneers. What has been your experience? I've not bought much at auction, but here are my thoughts:

- eBay - I missed one bargain here, but it doesn't strike me as a real place for wine auctions. Whenever I watch items up for auction, I inevitably quit watching them because the price gets real close to retail, or even above it. I think these people buying must not know about wine-searcher, globalwinestocks.com, etc.

- winebid.com - I've now bought a number of bottles from them. The 1960 Kopke "Vintage Port" turned out to be a Colheita. This wasn't obvious from the front of the label, but it was when I read the bottling date on the back. So that's a minor point against them. On the other hand, that bottle was still a great deal and I'm happy to have it, and their customer service otherwise has been great. I find their site easy to search and use.

- TCWC - I put in bids, but didn't win. I haven't seen great prices looking at past auctions. But the hammer prices are the final prices, whereas others add on the buyer's premium in one form or another, so maybe I'm not adjusting for that. They just do real auctions in person, so there's no real interactivity for those of us not there. I wish they offered an online or phone way to participate (like DoveBid which does industrial auctions in-person, but also online and via phone). I just put in a retail order with them and it sounds like one of the bottles in their inventory was mislabeled, yet they are shipping me the wrong bottle (a '97 instead of a '94, which I guess they thought was o.k. because the '97 actually cost more and they were giving me the cheaper price). So I'm not giving them a high customer service rating yet.

- Sotheby's - I'd be interested in what others think of them, as they've got a 6'er of '94 Vesuvio in an upcoming auction. The anticipated price looks good, but they have a very high buyer's premium, 25% if your purchases are small. And they don't take credit cards, only check which they'll wait for to clear, and wire transfer. That's not particularly convenient. Shipping? I have no idea.

- winecommune.com - Another I'd be interested in hearing about. I missed a great deal on a Gould Campbell, and am watching a few other auctions right now.

- Brentwood - Again, one I'd be interested in hearing about. Their selection seems rather limited right now.

Any others?

I do not like to talk much on auctions and what I use as I have seen several auctions go down hill due to new bidders (spurred from another port related forum), so I keep all auction stuff close to vest as much as possible.

I have used Sotherby's and was pleased as well as Christie's. Haven't seen much good deals come to auction in 2009.

I have no problem with any % buyer's premium they want to charge. It's all simple math in the end. Higher premium means lower hammer price. Stuff I buy at auction I do not care if it sits in storage for a year until someone I know is going there to pick up their winnings or we go together. Recently I caved in and had two cases shipped to me.

Brentwood has been rather hit-or-miss for me. There were major errors in the first two lots that I won from them (in separate auctions), but in both cases they made it right to my satisfaction. So if your criteria is not a perfect record, but rather that they'll make it right when something does go wrong, then there's really nothing wrong with Brentwood.

I bought one bottle on Ebay from guy who regularly sells wine, and it arrived in fine condition and was even a good bottle. I wouldn't shun Ebay completely, but with Ebay you're very definitely talking about a case of buyer beware. Know the seller (or at least the seller's reputation) or be wary.

That's it for me... I'm not really that adventurous when it comes to auctions.

I've dealt with Zacheys as well and have had no problems. Some auctions have more fortified wines than others. You have to keep track of them all unfortunately.

I had not heard of Zachy's. Thank-you Eric; and I will do my best not to overrun them and drive up the prices. Looking at the hammer prices from their last auction, that shouldn't be a problem. Many of the Port lots went for a bit above the pre-auction estimates, and at higher prices than I would like to pay. I didn't see any great deals or steals in there. But I'll look at the next catalog--you never know.

I've bought, sold , or bid through most of them at one time or another. Lately I've been buying at aution in the UK and finding that getting VAT and delivery straightened out can be difficult. I have dealt with Zachy's in the US and they are professional and the lots have been good. I feel that Bonham's in the US doesn't have a deep knowledge of ports.... and doesn't always accurately describe fill levels. I've bid many times at Hart Davis Hart and have always been outbid. I've sold through both Bonham's in SF and Sotheby's in NY and have good experiences. I have never sold ANY Port though :)

I had not heard of Zachy's. Thank-you Eric; and I will do my best not to overrun them and drive up the prices. Looking at the hammer prices from their last auction, that shouldn't be a problem. Many of the Port lots went for a bit above the pre-auction estimates, and at higher prices than I would like to pay. I didn't see any great deals or steals in there. But I'll look at the next catalog--you never know.

I've noticed over the past year or so, most fortified wines have been selling at the low end, but well within the estimated prices. Not the huge bargins one might have hoped for, unlike some table wines. Maybe it's because they don't come up near as common.
Zachys is a major retailer in NY. When commercial auctions started in NY, they were affiliated with Christies; but since then, the two have gone separete ways.