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1966 Taylor Fladgate Vintage Port

Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 8:12 am
by Peter W. Meek
As I've said elsewhere, in the past, I have simply opened vintage ports and poured (carefully) from the bottle. I have never felt that I did the wine a disservice by doing it this way. I'm still in two minds about decanting.

We opened and decanted the wine (see Port Basics: 1966 Taylor-Fladgate: how do I open and decant?) at about 4:30. I had gathered a small crowd of interested onlookers (mostly staff, since I am trying to encourage port awareness there, and because many have become friends since we dine there twice a week for the past decade or so). We poured a couple of very short pours into Riedel port glasses (which the owner has recently got for us). We first passed them around for visual and aroma evaluation. Still reddish, but paler than young ports, not too much browning as you find in older VPs and Tawnys. The aroma had been wafting around us since we began decanting, but concentrated by the glasses, it was warm and smooth -- just what I had been hoping for. Then we passed the glasses around for small sips. It had a warm fruit sensation with the nice nutty taste that I look for in a good Tawny. The finish took twenty or thirty seconds trailing out to "pecan and caramel" as Kenny said.

After dinner, at 8:30 or so, we adjourned to the bar for serious tasting of the decanted and aired Port. We poured couple of ounces into the four Riedels and a little less into a few regular port glasses for the crew, and Mike B. and Laurie, and Eva and I settled in to try this wonder.

Now for the bad news: Eva (who has much the better nose for a corked bottle) said it was "musty". Laurie (who usually enjoys ports) said it just didn't grab her and gave her glass back. Mike and I sniffed and both said simultaneously "Acetone". Underneath, I still thought it was quite pleasant, but NOT as pleasant as when we first decanted it. Staffmembers, smelling and tasting theirs, had similar comments. Another staffmember , coming in on her day off just to taste this port, took one sniff and said "nail-polish remover" (which, of course, is acetone). Oddly, unlike some chemical smells, you couldn't blow this away and have it gone for a while, it would be back in a few seconds. But, if you ignored it, the wine beneath had all the right flavors and feels in the mouth.

The remaining 6 ounces or so we left in the decanter with a cork in the neck. Mike Roddy (the owner), who had a family function and couldn't be there, will try it at noon on Monday, and if there is any left we will take another try Wednesday evening.

All in all, a disappointing experience. The other ports of this vintage (3 or 4) and nearby (2 or 3), which I have opened and drunk directly have all been wonderful. This is leaving me with some doubts about decanting. I will try it again -- it may have just been this bottle that was defective. Is this distinctive acetone smell a known defect of VPs? Another possibility is the coffee filter. It had no scent that I could detect, and brewing coffee doesn't seem to pull an acetone smell from it, but possibly the alcohol extracted something. I didn't have any unbleached muslin to try Roy's method exactly -- this was the closest I could get on the weekend.

Re: 1966 Taylor-Fladgate

Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 9:08 am
by Eric Menchen
Bummer. Yeast fermenting at high temperatures produce ethyl acetate which can give that acetone aroma. The wine experts will have to tell us if/how this can happen in an old Port.

Re: 1966 Taylor-Fladgate

Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:20 am
by Moses Botbol
Acetone taste is unfortnately one of the more common faults in port wine from my experience. If I had a dime for every bottle that had acetone in its tasting notes... Don't know why they get it, but it's sure a downer.

It's not from the coffee filter, I can assure you.

Re: 1966 Taylor-Fladgate

Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:40 am
by Glenn E.
Acetone (sometimes referred to as VA for Volatile Acidity) is, as Moses said, one of the more common faults that can be found in Port.

The 1966 Taylor Fladgate can be a fantastic Port. Sadly, it sounds like you just had a bad bottle. :cry:

Re: 1966 Taylor-Fladgate

Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 12:20 pm
by Eric Menchen
I really don't know exactly what VA refers to, but isn't it the collection of fusel alcohols and esters, among which ethyl acetate is one?

Re: 1966 Taylor-Fladgate

Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 12:42 pm
by Glenn E.
Yes, that's my understanding as well. "VA" can show as a number of different smells... nail polish remover and shoe polish being two of the more common.

Re: 1966 Taylor-Fladgate

Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:48 am
by Peter W. Meek
Well, then this bottle actually had two faults: the VA or acetone smell, and both Eva and Laurie said it was corked. (They both have better noses than I do for corked bottles. Oddly, Kenny, who also has a pretty good nose, didn't say that he thought it was corked.)

The place I bought it from (should I say who? here or anywhere in the FTLOP site?) said they have 28 more bottles? Should I assume all have been treated the same, or was it likely that this was a single bottle fault that wouldn't affect the others?

Should I notify the place of purchase? I can't return the bottle; we drank most of it. Under the faults it was still a pretty impressive wine.

Re: 1966 Taylor-Fladgate

Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 10:15 am
by Glenn E.
Pete,

Bad bottles are a fact of life with wine. You probably wouldn't be able to return the bottle to any store as there's always some risk no matter what type of wine you're buying. A store might make an exception if you're a regular customer and they really like you, but even then they'd probably expect you to understand the risk. VA and TCA (a corked bottle) are both flaws that happen seemingly randomly to bottles. I don't think either can be caused by poor storage or handling.

Normally (read: Roy's experience with the 1983 Cockburn not included :cry:) finding a corked bottle in a case is no cause for alarm as the rest of the bottles are probably fine. It is possible that the TCA was introduced at the winery so there is some slight elevated risk for the rest of the case, but it typically seems to be a bottle-by-bottle problem. It's also normal for some people to notice it and others not. I'm almost immune to the stuff and can't really smell it unless people 2 tables away are turning to see what we're drinking due to the smell. :lol: All I usually notice from a corked bottle is that it seems muted both in flavor and aroma. Roy on the other hand is quite sensitive to TCA and can often smell it before anyone else in the room even suspects anything. Sometimes TCA can even "hide" for a few hours after decanting before showing its distinctive wet cardboard head.

VA seems to me to run more consistently through a case or even an entire year's production from a producer, but I don't personally consider it to be a fault unless it is overpowering. In some wines - Madeira for example - VA isn't even considered a fault at all. If you don't mind light levels of VA, then purchasing another one of the 28 bottles your supplier has shouldn't be a problem as it will vary from bottle-to-bottle even in wines that show it.

BTW - whether or not you say where you bought the bottle is up to you. We mention stores on FTLOP all the time, but you might not want to mention the store when you've had a problem if you don't feel that they were at fault. Or even if you do feel they were at fault... it's totally up to you, I think.

Re: 1966 Taylor-Fladgate

Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 12:04 pm
by Peter W. Meek
Glenn E. wrote:You probably wouldn't be able to return the bottle to any store as there's always some risk no matter what type of wine you're buying. A store might make an exception if you're a regular customer and they really like you, but even then they'd probably expect you to understand the risk.
I guess I benefit from my relationship with my favorite restaurant (where I also buy 90% of my wine). I mentioned that a bottle I had bought from them many years ago had turned out to be corked, and they insisted that I return the empty bottle (I had poured out the remainder) and that they would deal with the distributor.(Or possibly eat the loss, I suspect.) I do keep good purchase records, so I was able to pinpoint the exact date of purchase.
Glenn E. wrote:It is possible that the TCA was introduced at the winery so there is some slight elevated risk for the rest of the case, but it typically seems to be a bottle-by-bottle problem.
The 1966TF was bottled by BB&R, so I assume they supplied the cork, but what else you say applies.
Glenn E. wrote:It's also normal for some people to notice it and others not. I'm almost immune to the stuff...
I don't notice corking too much myself. If the wine beneath is good enough, I will drink it.
Glenn E. wrote:VA seems to me to run more consistently through a case or even an entire year's production from a producer, but I don't personally consider it to be a fault unless it is overpowering.
The acetone is very noticable to me. It really distracts me from the other aspects of the wine.
Glenn E. wrote:BTW - whether or not you say where you bought the bottle is up to you. We mention stores on FTLOP all the time, but you might not want to mention the store when you've had a problem if you don't feel that they were at fault. Or even if you do feel they were at fault... it's totally up to you, I think.
I think I will email them and let them know. If they show any concern, I will assume they are "good folks".

Re: 1966 Taylor-Fladgate

Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 5:52 am
by Andy Velebil
First I know of no VA issue with this particular producer and vintage. It is possible to get a bad bottle and since I've had very good bottles of this that would be my guess. Wine is a living thing and an odd duff bottle sometimes happens, much to our dismay.

Decanting also has nothing to do with VA or being Corked. If there is VA or it's corked, it's there long before you opened and decanted it. So don't let this one bad bottle influence your thoughts on decanting. With air it may get worse or more noticable, but it was already there and effects the smell and taste regardless. I'd say grab another bottle of this and see how good it can really be.

Re: 1966 Taylor-Fladgate

Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 6:29 am
by Peter W. Meek
Well, I did get an answer from the seller. They felt that their source was known and reliable, so improper storage was not likely an issue. They apologized and suggested it might be possible to arrange a discount on some future purchase to compensate for my disappointment. Pretty nice, considering they are under no obligation to do anything. :salute: I would name them, but I don't like to put them under any pressure to give discounts to anyone who says they got a bad bottle. As I get experience with more online sellers, I can always include them in a post mentioning several sellers with whom I have had good experiences. (I want to reward ethical dealing without punishing it.)

On the down side, they are a long way from me (west coast), so I have to pay for overnight delivery to avoid having the wine sit in a hot truck all day. That adds quite a bit (percentage-wise) to anything but the most expensive wines. The 66 TF was barely detectably warm when I took delivery after overnight by FEDEX. Recent 2-day packages from several delivery companies have been quite warm; fortunately, that doesn't hurt books or DVDs.

Re: 1966 Taylor-Fladgate

Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 6:39 am
by Moses Botbol
Perhaps buying Madeira over the summer will put you at ease in terms of temperature of the bottles while in transit until the fall?

Re: 1966 Taylor-Fladgate

Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 1:45 pm
by Eric Menchen
I just about always use ground shipping, but I've suspending shipping anything to me until the fall. I'll just have to drink from what I have on hand or buy locally for a few months.