I was reading a Washington Post article on wines to be served for Valentines Day and was disturbed to see that when the old 'chocolate paired with vintage port' was mentioned, it was not capitalized.
So what do you think, when used together as a wine type: Vintage Port ... should both words be capitalized. Even in reading many famous Port authors, I note they don't capitalize these two words when used together.
I think it should be, but can't come up with any very good reason why it should be so. I even feel that, in the absence of a rule demanding it, that it should not be. Nonetheless, I prefer it. I also like to capitalize 'Tawny' and 'Tawny Port'.
I suspect that I like to draw attention to the fact that the words taken together make up a descriptor of a class of wine, not a modification of a class of wine: "Vintage Port" rather than "port (that happens to be vintage)".
I confess that in my writing, I am not consistent about capitalizing either Vintage Port or Tawny. (VP looks okay; TP does not. I expect that 'Tawny' or 'tawny' will have to do.)
FTLOP being a major source for writing about port, what we do here will be influential for at least the English-speaking part of the wine world. It's best that we get it right and be consistent.
I don't think it is grammatically correct. Certainly the word vintage should not have a capital letter (the word capitalize does not mean to put into capital letters but rather to make use of or turn to one's advantage). There is an argument that as port is a contraction of Oporto it could have a capital letter, but the general rules on capital letters would say not. To me at least vintage port with capital letters just looks wrong.
[quote="Fowler's Modern English Usage, Second Edition, page 73: "capitals""]Apart from certain elementary rules … present use is almost as anarchic as that of HYPHENS. … Capitals are appropriate for full titles of persons, ranks, offices, institutions, countries, buildings, books, plays, etc., whether general or particular, singular or plural—and for the whole of such titles.[/quote]
My interpretation of the above is that the use of the term "Vintage Port" to describe the full title of a particular style of wine is perfectly acceptable, even is slightly anarchic.
An earlier thread seeking a related consistency was a failure.
Heh. Good thing I wasn't a member then. I have very strong opinions about apostrophes. (And, yet, I am inconsistent about them in port names, as well.)
I voted NO but do not have strong feelings either way. I think Fowler is saying that capitalization is often an arbitrary matter of custom. If I were writing a work of fiction that embedded the phrase "vintage port" I would try to be guided by how this phrase has been treated by others in fiction -- maybe Dorthy Sayers with reference to her protaganist, Lord Peter Whimsy, maybe in "Bus Man's Holiday" -- and conform to what I could discern as the customary usage. If a competent editor overruled my usage, I would accede to their professional judgment. I might also try to be guided by like naming conventions applied to other wines, being careful to try to select good analogies. How is 'brut champagne' handled? How is "rioja gran reserva" handled? But speaking for myself, I just wouldn't get too worked up about it either way, I would just choose a spelling and try to use it consistently.
I was about to explode into a torrent of abuse over the idea when I read the title of the thread. How could anyone suggest adding sugar to port must during the fermentation?! What a ludicrous idea!!
Then I read the thread title again. Oops. It didn't say "Should Vintage Port be chapitalized".
Can some of us clue the rest of us in on where capitalization originated and what it meant? Didn't Latin used to always be written in upper case letters, at least on monuments? I remember that initial letters in monastic writing were illuminated in upper case, and that as the German language developed, capitalization was used to distinguish nouns, which were always capitalized, from other kinds of words, which weren't, with the possible exception of initial words of sentences. Do we have a professional orthographer among us?,
I'm not overly bothered about this, and am certainly inconsistant in my own scribblings; but, Fowler aside, I think the grammatically correct answer depends on the context in which it is written:
1) If you are referring to vintage port in general, and not a specific vintage port, then I think the words do not qualify as proper nouns, and should therefore not be capitalised.
2) However, if you are referring to a specific product, such as Niepoort 2009 Vintage Port, then the words qualify as proper nouns, because it is a unique item, and should therefore be capitalised.
Tom Archer wrote:
2) However, if you are referring to a specific product, such as Niepoort 2009 Vintage Port, then the words qualify as proper nouns, because it is a unique item, and should therefore be capitalised.
And in this case it is actually part of the name, as "Vintage Port" often appears on the label.
personally i like to sit back, put some k.d. lang on the stereo, crack open a book by e.e. cummings, and sip a fine vintage port
should there be a space between those initials, ornot?
Tom, I agree with you. I have always thought that the term Vintage Port was a proper noun and for that reason alone, the always felt the two words together should have capital V and P.
Whether we are right or wrong, would determine whether "Vintage Port" would be grammatically correct or not.
It is interesting that whenever I receive emails from the heads of the British Port houses and also in articles specifically written by the top names in the British wine press ... VP always is written without capitals: as in, vintage port.
I think it probably should be capitalised (in particular when referring to ports that have been approved by IVDP or IVP as meeting the specifications for the "Vintage" category, which is capitalised), but personally i can't get too excited about it and rarely capitalise it myself, especially when referring to vintage port as a general category that includes VPs that were never approved as "Vintage" Ports by IVDP/IVP.
Likewise, when you look at the C. da Silva website, blog and Facebook page, i think the proper and correct name for the "Dalva" brand is actually "DALVA" (all capitalised), potentially meaning most of the references on FTLOP (eg: in the TNDB) and elsewhere on the web are technically incorrect. Does that matter? Not really, though it did really bother LEOPARD TREK last year!
Last edited by Rob C. on Mon Feb 27, 2012 6:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Rob C. wrote:I … rarely capitalise it myself, especially when referring to vintage port as a general category that includes VPs that were never approved as "Vintage" Ports by IVDP/IVP.
Please name some so that we know what you are describing.
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