Quinta do Mourão S. Leonardo 60 & 100 Year Old Port...

[Houston Porter]

I have yet to open my Quinta do Mourão S. Leonardo 30 or 40 Year Old Ports, but have read people wax poetic about Leonardo's aged tawnies, so figured I pass these two auction items along. They are being offered by a San Francisco wine merchant. I think I saw a bottle of the 100yo in Europe for something in the $1,200 range, so if this in fact the same thing, looks like a good buy. But I know very little about Leonardo and their pricing, so figured I'd pass this along to you folks.

Quinta do Mourão S. Leonardo 60 Year Old Port...current bid $200
http://www.klwines.com/Auction/Bidding/ ... ku=1330721

Quinta do Mourão S. Leonardo 100 Year Old Port...current bid $400
http://www.klwines.com/Auction/Bidding/ ... ku=1331284

[John Trombley]

Sadly, K and L will not ship to Ohio after the last auction lots I got from them two weeks ago. I saw the offers but was not allowed to bid. Is there any way to make any of these wines available direct? You may direct message me if so!

John Trombley

[Eric Menchen]

Same here. I've bought from K&L before. Today:

We cannot ship the auction items to the address we have on file for you. If you have a valid address in a state where we can ship, please add it by going to 'Address Book' from the 'My Account' page and then return to place your bid. Please refer to www.klwines.com/state_legality.asp for a list of states K&L can ship to.
...
We can ship wine to the following states:
Alaska
California
District of Columbia
Idaho
Missouri
Nebraska
Nevada
New Hampshire
New Mexico
North Dakota
Oregon
Wyoming

[John Trombley]

Warning, Will Robinson. THREAD DRIFT!

We've got to get organized for the continuing legal battle ahead. The last several years are just the beginning. Can we get retailers who have not yet been put out off business to collect a small voluntary legal fee for Free the Grapes (still very much alive, I believe) or some other organization to continue this fight in the US? We are not done by a long shot--the issues are still too complex. May actually take a constitutional amendment to fix this mess.

I just lost a chance to bid on a Tokaji Esszencia and two bottles of grand cru red burgundy, and it's getting more frequent all the time that I can't get irreplaceable stuff I need.

[Thomas V]

It seems so strange that there is so much trouble and legislation in place that prevents the shipment of alcohol within the borders of the US. It couldn't image this in Denmark or even any other country in the world

Is it a remnant of the past or does it have an actually purpose that makes sense here in modern day? (I guess it is related to each state is a self governing entity) Seems to me it just prevents an expansion in purchase which could contribute to financial growth.

[Mike K.]

It seems so strange that there is so much trouble and legislation in place that prevents the shipment of alcohol within the borders of the US. It couldn't image this in Denmark or even any other country in the world

Is it a remnant of the past or does it have an actually purpose that makes sense here in modern day? (I guess it is related to each state is a self governing entity) Seems to me it just prevents an expansion in purchase which could contribute to financial growth.

To greatly oversimplify, it is a combination of past and present. After our failed experiment of Prohibition, a 3-tier distribution chain was put in place to keep the producer from controlling the entire chain, which was believed to have contributed to the pre-prohibition over-imbibing issues. And in current day, state importers/distributors have a legal monopoly on all alcohol coming into their state, and pay off the governments to keep it that way. Again, a vast oversimplification, but I hope I captured the 'spirit' of the thing.

And yes, the consumer hates it.

[John Trombley]

I understand that the issues are both Federal Constitutional and state, as the Constitutional Amendment repealing Prohibition gave a specific power to the States. Powers granted to the States are in the Federal Constitution, including Amendments, are any powers not reserved to the Federal Government. However, the Amendment reversed that, and gave a specific power to the States to regulate trade and so forth in beverages containing alcohol. This plays havoc with the Federal Government's ability to regulate the importation of alcohol and even which courts have jurisdiction.

A retired pharmacist's idea of why stuff is such a mess, and why we might need a constitutional amendment to straighten things out. Strangely, there are many areas in the United States where Prohibition is still the order of the day. If a local region wants no alcoholic beverage consumption, the relevant State law can make it so. Won't be given up easily! Daniel Posner is one of the most knowedgeable of those who have been involved deeply with this subject. I did make a donation to his nonprofit 'Free the Grapes' organization but that was some time ago and I have to consider doing that again. If I gave the average price of one bottle I've been denied shipping this last year, it'd be of late about $600 for 6 bottles--let's say about $100 per year, and you get a nifty T-shirt. Of course greater or lesser donations are gratefully accepted.

How can we get this organized? Perhaps taking time to look at the website. http://freethegrapes.org/join-free-the-grapes/ would be a start, under 'Wine Consumers'. Trade and consumer donations are working together here! Pass the message! Emails secure; 100 percent of monies go to this cause alone. As a trade association, benefiting us, it's not tax-deductible, I understand.

[Houston Porter]

So what would be a good price for these? I've never seen the 60 year and have only seen the 100 year once, I think.

[Glenn E.]

Quinta do Mourão S. Leonardo 60 Year Old Port...current bid $200
http://www.klwines.com/Auction/Bidding/ ... ku=1330721

Quinta do Mourão S. Leonardo 100 Year Old Port...current bid $400
http://www.klwines.com/Auction/Bidding/ ... ku=1331284

That's a good price for the 60 and a fantastic price for the 100. I don't recall normal retail for either bottle off the top of my head, but I believe it's in the neighborhood of $280 for the 60 and probably much closer to $1200 for the 100. There's no way that price lasts for the 100, because at the very least I'll be bidding on it while it's that low.

I wrote about my first experience with these two wines in the FTLOP newsletter: Mr. Tawny Visits Paradise. In short, what I tell people is that these are very likely the two greatest Ports that you will ever have the opportunity to taste.

There are other Ports that some people will argue are better or at least the equal of these two, and those people would be right, but most people will never have the chance to taste those other Ports. 1931 Noval Nacional? Sure, granted. Where are you going to get one, and at what price? Taylor Scion, to pick an ancient tawny people have at least heard of? Eh... I'll be generous and allow it. Krohn 1863 and 1896? Absolutely, but they're locked away in the cellar never to be sold as-is. DR 1885? Sure, maybe, but again... it's just not available.

These two Mourao wines may not have the cachet of a 19th century date on their label, but quite simply they don't need it. And that lack of cachet/publicity means you can actually buy them at retail.

[Eric Menchen]

So what would be a good price for these? I've never seen the 60 year and have only seen the 100 year once, I think.

At $200 and $400 these were both very attractive. But the "100" still has a lot of time left and the price is going up, so while I considered bidding on both, I probably wouldn't win them. Note also that the "60" is a 750ml bottle. There aren't many of these, as the commercial bottling is now in 500ml bottle. As a matter of fact, I was only aware of the "60" in 750 as part of the initial FTLOP importation buy. I wonder if someone from FTLOP is selling this, or if Ayesha had extras that ended up on the open market.

[Glenn E.]

Note also that the "60" is a 750ml bottle. There aren't many of these, as the commercial bottling is now in 500ml bottle. As a matter of fact, I was only aware of the "60" in 750 as part of the initial FTLOP importation buy. I wonder if someone from FTLOP is selling this, or if Ayesha had extras that ended up on the open market.

I saw that as well. The picture isn't great, but it does appear to have the hang tag around the neck - it's just spun around to the back side of the bottle so all you can see is the string around the base of the neck. It'd be interesting to get a close-up photo of the back label of the bottle, as IIRC there's a very clear indicator on the back.

[Andy Velebil]

Note also that the "60" is a 750ml bottle. There aren't many of these, as the commercial bottling is now in 500ml bottle. As a matter of fact, I was only aware of the "60" in 750 as part of the initial FTLOP importation buy. I wonder if someone from FTLOP is selling this, or if Ayesha had extras that ended up on the open market.

I saw that as well. The picture isn't great, but it does appear to have the hang tag around the neck - it's just spun around to the back side of the bottle so all you can see is the string around the base of the neck. It'd be interesting to get a close-up photo of the back label of the bottle, as IIRC there's a very clear indicator on the back.

I'm a little concerned by the color of the Selo in this bottle (the "60"). Anyone else notice how dark it is for such a new bottling of this.

[Glenn E.]

Yeah, it looks like it's been leaked on. The fill is good, so I'm guessing something else leaked on it.

These had driven corks, didn't they? It was only the hand-bottled ones that we purchased in a dark alley out of the back of Miguel's car that had t-stoppers?

[Andy Velebil]

Yeah, it looks like it's been leaked on. The fill is good, so I'm guessing something else leaked on it.

These had driven corks, didn't they? It was only the hand-bottled ones that we purchased in a dark alley out of the back of Miguel's car that had t-stoppers?

The 100 year old has also leaked. You can clearly see it on the Selo. I'd avoid buying these two. Seems they have not been stored very well in the short time they've been on the market.

[Glenn E.]

Yeah, it looks like it's been leaked on. The fill is good, so I'm guessing something else leaked on it.

These had driven corks, didn't they? It was only the hand-bottled ones that we purchased in a dark alley out of the back of Miguel's car that had t-stoppers?

The 100 year old has also leaked. You can clearly see it on the Selo. I'd avoid buying these two. Seems they have not been stored very well in the short time they've been on the market.

I've emailed them for further information, and will update this thread as I receive it.

[Eric Menchen]

I think the 60 has a T stopper.

While K&L has pictures which is better than some sites, this is when I wish it was Spectrum, which has giant images (well, 1,600px × 2,400px), and often multiple views.

[Andy Velebil]

Glenn let us know what they say. They usually have good descriptions but both of these don't mention signs of seepage. The 100 year for sure does. And the 60 apprears to as well but need a better pic. Or the 60 has been exposed to the sunlight and it's gone brownish.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Glenn E.]

Okay... I've received a response:

Hi Glenn,

Yes you are correct in saying that both bottles show ver minor signs of past seepage. The wine was bottled recently in 2015 and it’s not uncommon for port wine to seep. The wine was purchased from a private cellar and always maintained in a temperature controlled storage facility it too was hand delivered to K&L. Port is susceptible to seepage and as both of the bottles have t-stoppers this makes them even more susceptible to this.

Let me know if you have any further queries or concerns.

I have to say that this response is not normal from them. I've only ever had good experiences with K&L, but this really seems to be trying to sweep the problem under the rug. This isn't "very minor" past seepage. The bottles are only 2 years old, so it would be more appropriately described as major seepage. Both selos appear to be fully soaked through to me.

The auction for the "60" closes this afternoon. I had planned to bid, but with this ... non-transparent? ... response from K&L I'm going to skip it. I think there's something seriously wrong with these bottles. No way they should have leaked that significantly in 2 years.

Furthermore, their description of the "100" is wrong. That's a 500 ml bottle, not a 750 ml bottle. An occasional error is understandable, but not on a bottle that could be worth $1000. You get those right.

[Andy Velebil]

Okay... I've received a response:

Hi Glenn,

Yes you are correct in saying that both bottles show ver minor signs of past seepage. The wine was bottled recently in 2015 and it’s not uncommon for port wine to seep. The wine was purchased from a private cellar and always maintained in a temperature controlled storage facility it too was hand delivered to K&L. Port is susceptible to seepage and as both of the bottles have t-stoppers this makes them even more susceptible to this.

Let me know if you have any further queries or concerns.

I have to say that this response is not normal from them. I've only ever had good experiences with K&L, but this really seems to be trying to sweep the problem under the rug. This isn't "very minor" past seepage. The bottles are only 2 years old, so it would be more appropriately described as major seepage. Both selos appear to be fully soaked through to me.

The auction for the "60" closes this afternoon. I had planned to bid, but with this ... non-transparent? ... response from K&L I'm going to skip it. I think there's something seriously wrong with these bottles. No way they should have leaked that significantly in 2 years.

Furthermore, their description of the "100" is wrong. That's a 500 ml bottle, not a 750 ml bottle. An occasional error is understandable, but not on a bottle that could be worth $1000. You get those right.

I normally love K&L but that reply is VERY troubling. Port is not known to seep, period. T-corks don't seep more than regular corks.

[Eric Menchen]

T-corks don't seep more than regular corks.

I'd give them slightly better odds of seeping, but I agree that after two years this is troubling. Someone will buy them, and they will probably be good. But I'm not going to.