Auction Prices

[Al B.]

Tom and I attended an auction today and left shaking our heads in amazement at some of the ridiculous prices that were being paid for some of the ports on offer. Some ports fetched more than retail and some must have been bought by people who know something that we don't because we would have paid a fraction of the price that the hammer went down at.

So I thought I would share some of our incredulity with you all and see what you thought. How about these prices per bottle (which include buyers premium):

Royal Oporto 1980 - GBP 22 / USD 44 / EUR 33
Croft 1982 - GBP 26 / USD 51 / EUR 39
Dow 1975 - GBP 33 / USD 64 / EUR 50
Sandeman 1960 - GBP 49 / USD 96 / EUR 74
Royal Oporto 1982 - GBP 26 / USD 51 / EUR 39
Quinta do Noval 1997 failed to sell at the seller's minimum price of GBP 166 / USD 324 / EUR 249

These were the worst of the prices. There was - perhaps unsurprisingly - quite a lot that was unsold.

Alex

[Tom Archer]

You only need a couple of careless buyers for this sort of thing to happen - there was a second dozen of the Dow '75 that sold for little more than half the price of the first..

I don't read this as a price surge - more an aberration!

Now a word of caution..

This was a sale where the auctioneers do not go overboard on descriptions, but do present the bottles for examination prior to the sale.

There were a few dodgy old bottles - such as a bottle that was labelled Dow '45, but appeared to have the word GRAHAM on it's leak stained capsule - that sold to absentee bidders for prices that were appropriate for pristine stock....

Caveat Emptor!

Tom

[Derek T.]

Tom,

This strikes me as misrepresentation - if you could spot that it was leaking and that the work Graham appeared on the capsule then so could the auction house. What recourse does the absentee bidder have when the goods are so far off the mark as this?

Derek

[Tom Archer]

The auctioneers were not mis-representing, the bottle was described as:

Dow, 1945
Handwritten label
Damage to seal
£60 - £80

The word GRAHAM could only be discerned after very close inspection, whereas DOW 1945 was writ large on the label.

Anyone buying without sight of the bottle should have been warned by the low estimate - which was a fair valuation.
It sold for £220 + BP..

Tom

[Al B.]

Also, the word Graham could only be made out on the seal once I had licked my grubby finger and scrubbed away at the cellar dirt on the top of the bottle.

However, someone buying this particular bottle may well have been able to return it on the basis that they had purchased something that was not in accordance with the description in the catalogue.But you've got to feel sorry for the person who made the commission bid of £220 for a bottle of Dow 1945 that was in a shocking leaky state - sale estimate of £60-80.

Alex

[Tom Archer]

I estimate that 80-90% of all the port sold at Uk auction is bought by just 20 people/merchants. A good many of them read this forum...

And it's beginning to look like we've got a couple of mavericks out there..

..I say a couple, because it only takes two to start bidding carelessly for silly prices to emerge.

The first surprise came last summer, when 4 bottles of Graham '45 sold for £3.5k - three times fair value.

Then about six weeks ago we saw an unimpressive Cockburn 1896 sell for £580 - over twice my estimate.

Then there was the provincial sale that I attended with Alex, where prices were all over the place, with two dozens of of Dow '75 selling for £350 and £200 respectively, despite the second dozen having better provenance!

Yesterday, Sotheby's had a sale -

Setting aside the half dozen Graham '55 that sold for retail price, we saw the spectacle of a bottle of Nacional '63 selling for £1700 +BP - about three times the price realised the last time one came to auction, and way over US retail price - let alone UK!

If either (or both) of the guys who are getting carried away are reading this, I have a simple message:

For the sake of your wallets, and before you sally into the sale rooms..

..DO YOUR HOMEWORK!

Use wine-searcher to check retail prices, remember to allow for buyers premium, and check to see if lots are subject to VAT.

The total cost of buying at auction should never be more than 70% of the retail price.

Remember that if one of you tires of the chase, there's no guarantee that anyone will take their place, so prices could take a tumble -

- it's a very cosy market place!

Tom

[Alan C.]

Tom,

although that was an interesting read, I dont follow the logic of how you think the 'buyers' may use this Forum, and then go on to pay inflated prices? We all talk of Wine Searcher,etc. I would have thought to pay such prices, you would have to reason they are NOT aware of this Forum and its workings.
Or am I missing something?

Alan

[Adam F]

Some of us are too analytical, I always worked off 2/3rd retail so I only pick up the scraps Tom misses :) It could just be the champagne glass stack of excess global cash sloshing around or perhaps just the good weather.

[Tom Archer]

Alan,

Not everyone who reads this forum scrutinises every word.

Of course that also means that they may not bother to read this thread..

..but I live in hope!

Tom

[Al B.]

Its funny to see. I had considered putting in a bid for the QdNN 1963 as it is a wine I would love to have a small stash of.

Crazy price paid at auction though. I didn't bid and would have wasted my time if I had done so as my bid would have been nowhere near the price achieved. Since I can buy at retail with excellent provenance for a price less than that achieved at Sotheby's, if the successful buyer would like to PM me, I can supply them with a large number of bottles of this wine for a price of £2,250 each.

Great post though Tom. Thanks.

Incidentally, that bottle of Cockburn 1896 is now on offer at Vintage Wine Gifts for £1,850. If they sell it, they clearly bought it at the right price - although their prices are geared towards the lazy affluent who can't be bothered to figure out what to do with their bonus. Fonseca-Guimaraens 1987 is for sale on their website for £39.99. It also happens to be available in Fortnum & Mason (not the UK's cheapest source of port) for, if I recall correctly, £24 a bottle. I would also observe that having recently spoken to the port buyer at Vintage Wine Gifts, I can state without doubt that he does not read this forum.

Alex

[Alan C.]

Alex,

I dont think you should encourage him to, either.
Because once he joins and begins to contribute, he has my best wishes.
At the moment, he appears to be buying ports for inflated prices, that fit in with his whole Company's approach.
I think we can be patient on this one....and circle like Vultures!!! :twisted:
That doesn't sound like a Business strategy that will survive.

Alan.

[Guest]

Didn't I see a thread somewhere on the forums for those new to the acution market?

Does anyone recall?

Thanks
Stewart

[Scott Anaya]

hmmmm, maybe we should have an ongoing Port auction index as a part of the site?????

[Al B.]

Stewart

Here's the link to the discussion on buying at auction.

http://www.fortheloveofport.com/ftlopfo ... ng+auction

Alex

[Guest]

Thanks Alex!