What do you think about Portuguese wines?

[João Rico]

Ok, i know this is not the right place to put this question, but since here a lot of people drinks Portuguese Wines, i would like to no your opinion too. I usually do ask myself what's the image you people have on Portuguese wines. I am doing some kind of research about Portuguese Wines image in the foreign markets and i would like to have some opinions/points of view from this Board. Some Questions:

1 - What do you think of Portuguese Wines?

2 - What would take you to buy, or not, Portuguese Wines?

3 - What is nowadays the image of Portuguese Wines?

4 - What do you think is needed for people to start buying more Portuguese Wine?



Your thoughts will be most appreciated.


Best Regards,

[Tom Archer]

1 - What do you think of Portuguese Wines?

In general, good everyday wines.

2 - What would take you to buy, or not, Portuguese Wines?

Mostly, price. Winemakers in countries such as Australia and Chile have shown that acceptable wines can be made for very low prices. I can find old wines from Portugal that I find very acceptable, from producers such as Joao Pato, at very low prices, but i know these are not economic prices for new production.

3 - What is nowadays the image of Portuguese Wines?

In the UK, Portuguese table wines have no special reputation. Port has a strong reputation, but in the table wine market, a customer in a supermarket will probably pay the same for a Portuguese table wine as they will for a wine from Chile. They will probably pay a little more if it comes from Australia.

This is probably not what you want me to say, but you have asked the question, so I will tell you the truth..

4 - What do you think is needed for people to start buying more Portuguese Wine?

I don't think there is anything wrong with the product, but if a wine producing region cannot use mechanisation, and produce large quantities at low prices, or have such an exceptional product that people will pay high prices for it, then it can only survive if it's currency is low enough to give it an advantage in export markets, or the domestic market is large enough to consume the production.

As you probably know, this is not currently the case.

I am tempted to be optimistic, to look at the best prospects and encourage the trade, but what would that achieve?..

Let me be honest. For the forseeable future (at least while Portugal remains part of the eurozone) there is no serious export potential for Portuguese table wines. There has been a huge illusion - a big deceit.

What more can I say?

Tom

[Pedro Guimaraes]

Reading Tom's reply i can only say....i told you so!!!!! - not here but in so many other places/ to so many people!!!!

This struggle of the portuguese wine industry to "fight" for a place in the low price "market" is simply stupid :devil: I'm really sorry to see us "chasing" this sort of market...

With such a specific product, a story behind it and centuries of an unique tradition, we are ruining a golden oportunity by going after the market or the price tag of the mass production type of wines!!!! Or at least to put the real effort into such markets...

Nowadays Chile/Australia are putting an effort to end the tag of "Chile wine" or "Australian wine" and start to categorize their wine regions into appelations, why should we do the opposite and promote the "portuguese brand"....i mean if you really know a bit about the wines, you know that a Douro wine and a Bairrada wine have almost nothing in common!!!!! And in both you can find true exceptionnal wines...

The market of the "rain or shine the wine tastes the same" is something i can really go without....and so does Portugal!!!!!

My 0,02 cents

[João Rico]

Great comments from Tom and Pedro.

Any more thoughts?

[Tom Archer]

I think Pedro is right to highlight the need for a clear appelation system. This would greatly improve the commercial prospects for those that made the grade, although it would be ruinous for those that did not.

The French appelation system is full of anachronisms, and vested interests appear to prevail when appelations are revised. From the consumer's point of view, it is very hard to know what is likely to be good value.

If a Portuguese appelation system was devised that was based on merit alone and is easy to understand; by people who had no commercial interests or personal loyalties to any producer, with all tastings conducted blind and all deliberations published, then it would carry great weight in the market.

If, on the other hand, the appelation is constructed in a complex fashion, to ensure that all the current major producers are kept happy, it would be seen for what is was, and not taken very seriously.

A person seeking to create a respected appelation system must be ready to kill giants..!

Tom

[Moses Botbol]

1 - What do you think of Portuguese Wines?

I think the world of them and drink them all the time. Most red's are from Dao, not Duoro I buy.

2 - What would take you to buy, or not, Portuguese Wines?

Selection and price, I am already sold on the quality to price ratio...

3 - What is nowadays the image of Portuguese Wines?

Still cheap and not up to France, Italy or Spanish levels... One of those "other countries" that also makes wine. Lancers, Vinho Verde, and Maetus are what most still think of outside of Port wine.

4 - What do you think is needed for people to start buying more Portuguese Wine?

Marketing Portuguese wine has more history than France, more cares goes into the bottling for the money and no one can offer the complexity or richness than Portuguese wines (espeically Dao) can deliver for the money. Perhaps a new breed of wine labels and bottles that appeals to the Yellow Tail crowd.

Celebrity endoresments, movies that have the wine as a prop... There's lots of ways to introduce wine to a new crowd or get new people talking about it. How about sports sponsorships?



Your thoughts will be most appreciated.


Best Regards,[/quote]

[Roy Hersh]

1 - What do you think of Portuguese Wines?

I enjoy the wines of Dao, Vinho Verde, Barraida, Ajentejo of course and Setubal but Douro still provides the best overall quality in the country and especially great expressions from TN, TF and TR grapes. The quality there has grown exponentially in the past five years since the very fine 2003 Douro vintage. When looking back 10-15 years the difference is nothing short of remarkable, but I don't know the other regions nearly as well even though I have tried fine examples from all of those areas.

2 - What would take you to buy, or not, Portuguese Wines?

I do it all the time and in fact moreso than any other region or country in the world.

3 - What is nowadays the image of Portuguese Wines?

In the USA it is steadily increasing in markets where distributors have put out the word, time and effort to improve education and have a solid portfolio. As we've heard here, USA's 3rd largest city, Chicago, has barely begun to explore Douro wines. Lots of promotional work must still be done by the likes of AEVP and others here.

4 - What do you think is needed for people to start buying more Portuguese Wine?

Promotion and education. More visits to Portugal will also be helpful, but I think that is for people who are already pretty much convinced. The real win will be getting your typical wine lover to explore with Portuguese wines and the only way that will happen is if more of the solid quality value wines from Portugal make it over to the USA. That was the success first seen by the Australian wine industry when I first started buying them in the USA circa 1986. The real expensive stuff was not here until after 1990 and in most markets in the USA not really until 1992-3. Just having "cult" Portuguese wines over here is going to attract the likes of David, Andy, Frederick, Moses and a few others that are already enjoying Portuguese wines and loving them. Instead going after the Rhone lover who is seeing the prices go up and up every year ... if they could find an equal value to quality wine with CdP prices comparable to pricing in the late 1990s ... where it was hard to spend over $35-40 a bottle .. that would be great. Better yet, when in the $20-30 range though. We don't see almost any fine quality wines at that range coming to the USA at this time ... maybe the rare Douro. From other regions yes, but they are even less popular here in America then Douro wines. Given the economy ... those not familiar with Portugal will not be enticed to pay $40-80 without knowing the region FIRST through entry level or just slightly higher priced quality offerings.

[João Rico]

Thank you all for the responses. It was really enlightning

[Brian C.]

I'm a little late here, but thought I'd chime in on this.


1 - What do you think of Portuguese Wines?

I know there is a prevailing preference on here for the Douro table wines, but I'm going to mention that I also have had better overall luck with the Dao wines that I've tried. I can't say I've thoroughly sampled every region, though.

2 - What would take you to buy, or not, Portuguese Wines?

Chicago doesn't have a lot of places that sell them. Thankfully there's a shop near me that does. I saw a distributor set up an informal tasting in the shop, with the Portugese selection being Quinta dos Roques from the Dao. The store sold out of that bottle that day. For me to buy more often, places need to stock them more often, and they need to do promotions like this more often to get the public hooked. But if Portugal starts making more wines that incorporate nonnative grapes, the charm will be lost. The beauty of Portugese table wine is that it doesn't have the grapes found in France or California. I don't care to know how chardonnay or merlot or cab or syrah would work with a Portugese terroir.

3 - What is nowadays the image of Portuguese Wines?

Is there an image? I think people just don't know they exist. Most people's wine vocabulary consists of about 10 grapes. If Portugal gets mentioned, homage is paid to port, but that's it. And if people show up at a place like Total Wine and see that Portugese offerings are usually priced around mid single digits, they are going to wonder.

4 - What do you think is needed for people to start buying more Portuguese Wine?

I think the Quinta dos Roques example above is a big part of what it takes. Not only does the public not know, most shops don't know, either. And most shops are not willing to spend the time, effort, and money to educate the public on Portugese wine. It is easier to keep selling what people already know, as there is less mystery when it comes to profits.

[Moses Botbol]

It's going to take the wine press, like WS and Parker to enlighten the masses that these wines are good and a value. Wines under $25 is such a ripe market and $25 gets one heck of wine from Portugal, especially Dao. WS & Parker say to jump of a bridge, there will a lot of bodies in the water. The liquor stores obviously have to have the product as well.

Where I grew up, over 50% of the population is from the Azores, so anything Portugal is popular. For me, these wines are also about local pride.

[Brian C.]

Moses,

I saw an Anthony Bourdain episode where he visited the Azores. One of the islands (I think it was Pico) had a locally grown wine, and I googled in vain to find out more about it. Production of the wine was interrupted by a geological event, but resumed, though somewhat altered from before. Do you know anything about this wine at all, and where one might be able to buy it?

I think the Quinta dos Roques example shows that people don't need Robert Parker to tell them to buy something. If it's that good, people buy it, as the empty shelf/bin at the end of the day showed. And I think there's something to the idea that people feel like they're ahead of a curve by discovering something before Robert Parker does. The way to get the Yellow Tail crowd (as you mentioned them in an earlier post) is to plant grapes that are in their vocabulary. And that just defeats the purpose, and reduces it down to California grapes on Portugese terroir (as Yellow Tail is about California grapes grown on Aussie terroir). And that will get the main wine publications on board. I will definitely not be on board for that, though.

I think the Spanish model deserves some examination. They mostly kept to their own native varieties. The tempranillo grape is often front and center. There are also other local varieties like verdejo and mencia that are quite good. Spain also has some great monastrells (I know, same as mourvedre, but France never seemed to put this grape in a starring role, so I like to think that Spain made this grape work in a starring role). Priorat seems to be the exception to the rule, as it reminds me of a Cotes du Rhone blend (and the region was brought to prominence by a Frenchman named Rene Barbier in the late 70s and early 80s, according to wiki). By and large, though, Spain succeed by not trying to be like France or California. And to me, I always choose a Spanish wine if it's on the menu. There are already too many producers trying to be like France or California. That model has to be reaching the saturation point by now, if it hasn't already.

So there are ways to get the wine press to notice, but we have to be careful about what we wish for. Portugese grapes have to make it on their own. That is the real selling point of Portugese wines, the whole uniqueness that they offer. The wine press seems to be too locked into California and France, as that is what sells best in this country. Breaking a status quo is very hard.

[Moses Botbol]

Moses,

I saw an Anthony Bourdain episode where he visited the Azores. One of the islands (I think it was Pico) had a locally grown wine, and I googled in vain to find out more about it. Production of the wine was interrupted by a geological event, but resumed, though somewhat altered from before. Do you know anything about this wine at all, and where one might be able to buy it?

I saw that episode as well. Anthony and I have a similar upbringing (Cape Cod) in that respect. I did not realize what I thought of as Portuguese food is really from the Azores... My idea of Kale Soup is with chopped potatoes, not pureed... There is a fair amount of people I know from the mainland as well.

Never seen any wines from the Azores, but can't say I really have looked for it, but will now. If there is any for sale, I bet it's not expensive.

[Niklas J]

Brian; the local wine on Pico you refer to is probably the "Lajido". Made from grapes simliar to Madeira the wine is also Madeira-like in taste. Actually there's some Terrantez in the blend!

You can find it many places around Portugal and in most supermarkets both on mainland and on islands.

Check out Garrafeira Nacional: https://www.garrafeiranacional.com/pt_p ... oso-050cl/

/Niklas J

[Moses Botbol]

Moses,

I saw an Anthony Bourdain episode where he visited the Azores. One of the islands (I think it was Pico) had a locally grown wine, and I googled in vain to find out more about it. Production of the wine was interrupted by a geological event, but resumed, though somewhat altered from before. Do you know anything about this wine at all, and where one might be able to buy it?

I went over a Portuguese friend's house to watch the Superbowl. He saw the Anthony Bourdain episode and mentioned he's been to that bar before, and all his family's properties on the Azores... He was also interested in seaching for that wine, so we are on the lookout. There's one liquor store in Somerville that has a massive Portuguese wine and aguardente selection; perhaps they'll have it? I brought Andy V in there when he came to visit our fair city and attest to the selection of under $20 wines from Portugal.

[Roy Hersh]

Moses,

How many of those under $20 bottles of wine from Portugal are from the Douro?

BTW, what part of the Cape are you from. Growing up, my parents used to take us for the month of August, for a number of years to this fantastic 3BR place on a large lake in Chatham. We used to love sailing on it and some of my best childhood memories were from that "elbow area" of the Cape, although my parents took us to many different beaches along the Cape, and I remember quohog hunting and picking up horseshoe crabs etc. What a great place and great memories.

[Moses Botbol]

Moses,

How many of those under $20 bottles of wine from Portugal are from the Douro?

BTW, what part of the Cape are you from.

Maybe 15% are from Douro; most are from Dao or Alentejo. Douro isn't as popular actually.

I grew up in Falmouth.