Barca Velha 1999 - Bargain or not?

[Henrik Lilja]

This post is not "price" related - it's about the taste of the 1999 Barca Velha.

BIG DISSAPOINTMENT!
We were 3 guys having a dinner at a restuarant (mentioned in the Michelin-guide). We ordred the 1999 Barca Velha. We have tasted the 1983, 1985 and 1991 Barca Velha before - so we got some grounds of comparing.

Totally lack of the "Barca Velha"-power. A true light-bodied wine - not even medium! Surprisingly it alredady showed signs of maturing. Wouldn't keep this in the cellar for long - just haven't got the needed level of tannins.

The wine was for sure drinkable - but if you have had Barca Velha before - you will be dissapionted. This wine should be sold with a 30-40 % discount - buy the 2000 instead. Sometimes you succeed - sometimes you fail - Barca velha failed in 1999 for sure. :?

Best regards
Henrik

[Andy Velebil]

Henrik,

Sorry about the poor showing of this and thanks for posting a note about it. Was this your first time tasting this vintage of Barca Velha?

[Frederick Blais]

I had this wine twice after release in 2006-2007 I believe and it was nothing near light bodied. I would believe it was a poor bottle or the wine is starting a numb phase. It is always sad to pay that price tag and get disapointed, as normally this is great stuff.

[Henrik Lilja]

Andy - yes - it was the first time we (all 3) had the 1999.
It wasn't a "poor bottle" - but as Frederick writes - it could be a "numb phase".

Don't get me wrong about the Barca Velha en general - i'm a big fan - I just got dissapointed with the 1999. As I wrote - it was for sure drinkable - but not at the level for which you expect the Barca Velha to be.

I'll give it a try again - hopefully i'll be surprised in a positive way?

Best regards
Henrik

[Roy Hersh]

I've read some pretty impressive reviews of 1999 from Portuguese wine websites. None that made any negative comments. Wondering why this was not better.

[Henrik Lilja]

I've read some pretty impressive reviews of 1999 from Portuguese wine websites. None that made any negative comments. Wondering why this was not better.

Well - it could be that we actually did have a "poor bottle" - others do like this vintage for sure... I do realise that "i'm on my own here"
At least WS do agree with me, that this vintage havn't got cellar potential for deceades.

Robert Parker (94p):
"The 1999 Barca Velha (Casa Ferreirinha) is Portugal’s equivalent of Grange, the seminal cult wine for a nation. The winery (Ferreira; hence, the labeling “Casa Ferreirinha,” hearkening back to a famous owner from days gone by) that first made it has long since been sold to Sogrape, Portugal’s biggest wine corporation. Some younger winemakers openly questioned whether Barca Velha was a bit of a dinosaur. Nonetheless, in this vintage at least, it seemed superlative to me, a blend of a more modern styling than seen in Casa Ferreirinha wines like the 1996 Reserva, together with a slightly old-fashioned air lingering in the background. No one will confuse this wine with some of Portugal’s well-known, high-end, modern reds like the Symington’s Chryseia or Quinta do Crasto’s Maria Teresa. It is powerful, with significant tannins and fine structure. With decanting (which it had here), it can be approached. Deep and intense, it has a focused attack of fruit on the palate, some darker fruit notes like a touch of plum, some earthiness, and grip on the finish from that fine structure. It also manages to have a little brightness and a certain refreshing note, cutting through the muscular presentation. The texture has some velvet and it was a pleasure, too. It also shows some gracefulness and complexity, and it should drink well for a couple of decades, improving steadily in the cellar over the next several years. There were 2,500 cases produced. Drink from 2008-2022."

Wine Spectator (93p):
"Fresh and lively despite its age, with an amazing minerally aroma followed by a core of red cherry, licorice and red plum flavors that are focused and concentrated. Has a powerful structure and a rich finish filled with cinnamon and spice. Drink now through 2012. 50 cases imported."

[Frederick Blais]

At least WS do agree with me, that this vintage havn't got cellar potential for deceades.

I think it has more to do with the WS mind set regarding aging of wines with their marks. VP are not even getting much aging potential either :)

[Soren Bodker]

You are not alone. The 1999 is a good wine but is not what you expect from a Barca Velha. Compared to the vintage you mentioned and older ones and the new 2000 it fails.

And now a question. I have heard that the Barca Velha 2000 proably will be the last Barca Velha because the vineyards are sold and the new owner wants to produce his own high quality wine. Is this through or just a spiteful rumour ? :help:

[Andy Velebil]

I've not heard about Barca Velha coming to an end and I doubt that would be the case. The grapes for this used to come from Quinta do Vale Meao at the far eastern part of the Douro Superior. However, as Vale Meao is now producing it's own wines/Ports they are no longer sell their grapes to Ferreira. Since 1991 Ferreira has been using grapes from Sogrape's Quinta da Leda to make the Barca Velha. I don't know if that was a 100% change over or if there was some blending initially, but if I'm not mistaken all the grapes now come from Quinta da Leda.

[Frederick Blais]

I did met in 2006 the vinification technology manager of Sogrape. Quinta da Leida was already part of the blend in the 80's as a few other vineyards. For them Vale Meao getting out of the equation was not a major move as in the last vintages, it was accounting for only 5% of the blend.

[Frederick Blais]

Ok, in the name of Science, I did open a bottle over the week-end. I did drink it over 3 hours and left a couple of glass for the day after. I did not decant.

My first impression, with the first sip, was ... damn he's right, its light. Nevertheless, this wine had impressive frangrance, complexity, balance and elegance. To me it was comparing to what Niepoort is doing today(not sure he'll like the comment :) ) Though, after 30-45 mins, with air, the wine suddenly starts to shut and gain in weight. It was looking like a young beast full of tannins and intense aromas and flavours of dark ripe fruits was emerging.

On the 2nd day, the nose did open up again to get back those floral notes. On the 2 days, the color was dark ruby, can't see through, no brick on the rim.

This needs time!

[Henrik Lilja]

Hey Frederick - we did have the bottle at a restaurant - and did drink relatively fast. We asked the waiter to decant - so before we got to the main dishes - it might had 1 hour of air! Obviously it wasn't enough. I agree that it did improve in the glass - and the last zip surely was much better than the first zip - it was for sure a nice wine - my only point was- and I still think - that this vintage lack some of the true Barca Velha power. You have some exscpectations when bying and drinking Barca Velha - this vintage just doesn't fullfill exspectations. Actually - and I wish I was wrong - I reaylly can't see ageing/maturing will do it any better - powerwise! It might get more elegant and so forth - but when I drink Barca Velha I get primitive - I WANT POWER

Best regards
Henrik

[Roy Hersh]

Henrik and others,

If you have a look at the current issue of the Newsletter (#44) which is open source for all this month ... there in the Feature Article, you can find a good amount of information on Barca Velha.

One thing that must be considered with the 1999, well actually two. 93 and 94 point scores from WS and WA respectively, shows that the wine is certainly solid ... even if it might not make for old bones. But far more importantly than critic's scores or even their tasting notes it should be noted for any wine, not just BV:

Wines and their inherent house styles are much more difficult to keep consistent than making Vintage Port (a major blend of grapes and often times, properties). The growing season in 1999 was nowhere near as advantageous in the Douro for Port or table wines as it was in 2000. Elegance was achieved, rather than power in 1999 and there's nothing wrong with that ... especially as the wine ages. It may not have two+ decades of life ahead of it, but may drink really beautifully a few years earlier than is the norm. I see nothing wrong with it.

That said, I also understand the expectations one has when paying significant money for a bottle such as Barca Velha. But to me, this is no different than appreciating the difference between a 2003 Vintage Port and one from the same house in 2007. They are totally different drinking experiences due to the very different growing seasons.

[Henrik Lilja]

Roy,

I get the point.
If I had done my homework, I should/would have known, that the 1999 equals "elegance" rather than "power" (like the 2000). I agree that there is nothing wrong with an elegant wine compared to a power-wine - this is very simplified! If I had just known this - I would have been prepared - but I was so dissapointed - which I probably woudn't have been if I had just known. But if I had known - I/we would have picked the 2000 - which also was on the wine-map.

Best regards
Henrik

[Andy Velebil]

Henrik
Sounds to me like a great reason for a revisit to the restaurant is in order to try the 2000 version


Roy,
I read the newsletter after my reply...great timing with this thread!