Drinking Port past its peak

[Roy Hersh]

This is a touchy subject that is very open to personal interpretation. Some people actually prefer their Ports, especially Vintage Port when they are fully mature (the wine that is ). Others are not as in lust with the tertiary notes that arise and consider the same Port, over-the-hill. But let's for the moment just focus on Port, say ... Vintage Port or any ruby style really, as they're easier to tell when they're past their prime. Do you like these wines on the plateau that appears just before they head into their tawny phase? Your thoughts on the concept?

[Derek T.]

I enjoy Vintage Ports best when they are fully mature, but not over the hill. If I could freeze time and drink the same port forever it would be where most of the big name shipper's 1963s and the very best of the 1955s are now, with some Croft 45 and Cockburn 1908 thrown in for good measure. If that seems too complicated, I am happy to settle for a couple of pipes of Croft 45 to see me through to the end

I do enjoy tasting very old VP, but it is more for the rare honour of drinking an old and noble bottle than it is about the sheer enjoyment of the wine.

[Marc J.]

I prefer to drink fully mature vintage Port (the 1955s are drinking perfectly at the moment.). Older Ports from the 1800s and early 1900s are interesting, but far too fragile at this point in their development.

[Eric Menchen]

Do you like these wines on the plateau that appears just before they head into their tawny phase? Your thoughts on the concept?

So by saying plateau, you're suggesting that the tawny phase is past peak?

[Glenn E.]

I tend to enjoy my Vintage Port either very young or very old. The 2003s are too old now so I'll have to wait 30-40 years to try them again. The 2007s are still going strong for me.

On the other end, I tend to prefer my Vintage Port just a little past full maturity. That way they're soft and round, but still have good fruits and haven't yet started to get hot. I suppose that means they're still "on the plateau" that Roy is talking about. I don't really have sufficient experience with fully mature Port to be able to say which ones are in that range, but I've had wonderful experiences with Ports from a 1947 Noval to a 1970 Taylor. Generally speaking it seems that the 1970s and 1966s are still maturing, though.

I do enjoy tasting older Ports, but for me it's more as a curiosity and for the rarity of the event.

[Andy Velebil]

I do enjoy tasting very old VP, but it is more for the rare honour of drinking an old and noble bottle than it is about the sheer enjoyment of the wine.

I think this statement sums it up best for me. Along with the rare honor and hopefully still being a nice old Port part of the fun in drinking really old VPs is learning what was going on in the world when that wine was made. The best example was at Roy's 50th when we had two bottles of 1815 Ports. While neither could be called spectacular by any stretch, it was sheer excitement, honor, and educational experience to taste something that was produced the year when Napoleon battled at Waterloo and then survived for almost 200 years through all kinds of wars.

However, my main reason is for the educational side of tasting such an old and rare Port; learning how it ages, how it is similar or different to younger vintages, how is it holding up, etc. The later is why I would never turn down the opportunity to try older VP's. As the old saying goes, One can never put a price on learning.

[Peter W. Meek]

Into the tawny phase for me.

In fact, I have tended (except in a few cases) to simply not buy much vintage port any more. The ones already old enough are expensive - especially compared to good Tawny - and the younger ones will not get that far in my lifetime.

I keep some VP around for "visiting firemen", but I probably wouldn't open one for just my own enjoyment. Watch the obit columns: after I'm gone (a good long time from now, I hope) someone will get some good deals on VPs if the kids don't want them.

[Moses Botbol]

I like them fully mature or what some may say declining. As for what vintage is mature is too vague for me to say. I've had stuff 100 years old that tasted like 30 year old vintages. It comes down to the bottle at hand. Admitted that some of it is just the pure history and honor, but I am not big on the massive fruit wines (both port and dry wine). It's also an honor to have a bottle that was held, stored, perhaps cherised for so many years for simply being consumed by me and my friends.

I don't knock those who like younger port, it's just not "me". I try to hold to the 20 years before drinking vintage port. I love tawny ports, but have been drinking cases of 2005 Dow LBV, so I am familiar with younger port and don't need a reminder on how good they can taste.

[Moses Botbol]

Watch the obit columns: after I'm gone (a good long time from now, I hope) someone will get some good deals on VPs if the kids don't want them.

Which paper? Just kidding. I would rather have a bottle in person with you than buying several from your estate at a bargain.

[Eric Ifune]

I like my vintages pretty old; just as they are going tawny. I like the caramel/oxidized flavors. When they go spirty, then they're too old. It's a fine line.

[Roy Hersh]

Time to lighten things up a bit ...


Mr. DRT wrote:

I am happy to settle for a couple of pipes of Croft 45 to see me through to the end

I think Derek, means he'd like a couple of pipes of Croft '45 Colheita.



Marc J. wrote:

I prefer to drink fully mature vintage Port (the 1955s are drinking perfectly at the moment.). Older Ports from the 1800s and early 1900s are interesting, but far too fragile at this point in their development.

'Tis a shame we don't all get to drink old Ports like that every day to find out.



Eric M. wrote:

So by saying plateau, you're suggesting that the tawny phase is past peak?

Exactly!



Glenn wrote:

I suppose that means they're still "on the plateau" that Roy is talking about. I don't really have sufficient experience with fully mature Port to be able to say which ones are in that range, but I've had ...

Glenn, in order to understand what I meant by PLATEAU, you'd first have to be able to appreciate that gorgeous 1935 Sandeman, I opened.



Andy V. wrote:

As the old saying goes, One can never put a price on learning.

Mr. Velebil, you are quickly becoming the Yogi Berra of Port prose.




Peter M. wrote:
Into the tawny phase for me. ...

Watch the obit columns: after I'm gone (a good long time from now, I hope) someone will get some good deals on VPs if the kids don't want them.

And here all along I thought, the Meek shall inherit the earth, not your leftover VPs!



Moses took this one from his 10 Commandments:

I don't knock those who like younger port, it's just not "me". I try to hold to the 20 years before drinking vintage port. I love tawny ports, but have been drinking cases of 2005 Dow LBV, so I am familiar with younger port and don't need a reminder on how good they can taste.

Reminds me of the game show, "Can You Top This?" You don't like drinking younger VP's but drink cases of 2005 LBV instead?



And finally ...

Eric I. wrote:

I like my vintages pretty old; just as they are going tawny. I like the caramel/oxidized flavors. When they go spirty, then they're too old. It's a fine line.

The above played to the foot stompin' Joaquin Phoenix version of ... Walk The Line.

[Peter W. Meek]

Time to lighten things up a bit ...

Andy V. wrote:

As the old saying goes, One can never put a price on learning.

Mr. Velebil, you are quickly becoming the Yogi Berra of Port prose.

That brings to mind a favorite of mine:

"The price of aesthetic education is never small."

It was a throw-away line from a historic novel by Dorothy Dunnett. It has stuck with me for 30 or more years. I really like it, and it really is true.

You have to buy a LOT of crap before you finally learn what is in good taste (or tastes good).

[Derek T.]

Mr. DRT wrote:

I am happy to settle for a couple of pipes of Croft 45 to see me through to the end

I think Derek, means he'd like a couple of pipes of Croft '45 Colheita

What is Colheita? Is that the stuff they make from wines that didn't make the cut when they decided to make a VP?

I'll settle for a couple of pipes (or is that 112 dozen?) Croft 45 VP

PS: 112 x 12 = 1344 bottles = 1344 days = 3.68 years. Perhaps I need significantly more than 2 pipes?

[Lamont Huxley]

So... to those that prefer to drink VP in the "tawny phase", why not just drink tawnies?

[Marc J.]

Time to lighten things up a bit ...



Marc J. wrote:

I prefer to drink fully mature vintage Port (the 1955s are drinking perfectly at the moment.). Older Ports from the 1800s and early 1900s are interesting, but far too fragile at this point in their development.
'Tis a shame we don't all get to drink old Ports like that every day to find out.

I wish that I was able to open daily drinkers from 1955 & 1963! Generally speaking, I tend to open far more Special Reserve/Bin 27/Warrior/Noval Black/LBVs than I do Vintage Port. Although I do like to pop open a nice, older bottle every now and then and given a choice I'd go with the mature stuff. I must say that I wouldn't mind opening a '45 Croft every other day, but I heard that some chap in the U.K. had cornered the market...

[Ann M]

Me prefer to drink VP in the TAWNY PHASE

[Roy Hersh]

Wow, hi Ann, thanks for joining us. You are our first person from Kenya to ever sign up for FTLOP. Very cool and we're thrilled to have you. Look forward to your taking part in our discussions.