BIG & BREAKING NEWS: IVDP - VIOLENCE IN THE DOURO - BENEFICIO

[Victor D.]

Victor,

Please calm down.

Despite what you seem to believe, Americans are not the only people who suffer the effects of terrorism. For my entire life the UK has lived with the threat and impact of innocent people being killed by terrorists, so I am not as ignorant of such things as you accuse me of being.

I do not in any way deny that vigilance is a good thing. But I stand by what I say above in that the situation in Regua and the Douro cannot in any way be considered in the same context as the horrors 9/11 or the bombings and mass killings in London, Europe, Mumbai and Africa in recent years.

Derek

I am calm, very..Thank you, and I stand by what I said and I NEVER compared nor considered Douro in the same context as 9/11 or any other mass killings. All your words...I just gave a simple courtesy reminder to be aware.

Also, there is other things BESIDES 9/11 and bombings as you seem fixating on. You may see the same resemblance of citizen uprisings in Greece, Egypt, etc. to name a few. There are not horrors, or terrorist but just citizens tired of not having enough money in their pockets to provide for their families.

[Derek T.]

[Roy Hersh]

Victor, thanks for joining us here in the discussion and we hope you will continue to enjoy your stay here. Your first post had many interesting points in it!

For everyone in this thread ... this is NOT the venue to discuss September 11th topics, nor warnings for travelers. Please take that to either the travel part of our Forum or to Other Discussions please.

Now back to the topic of the violence in the Douro or far more importantly, the Beneficio rights. As those of you who have joined me on our trips to Portugal know, this is a topic I've championed for many years. I've brought it up on nearly every trip to Portugal and it always remains a relevant subject, ever changing. During interviews I did for Zev's documentary, I got the opinions of many on this specific topic. We've done "Beneficio rights" related versions of A QUESTION FOR THE PORT TRADE TOO. This is to me, the most pivotal issue affecting the Douro today ... for better and usually worse.

Different Port houses have varying opinions on what can be done (or not) to try to fix the current way that Beneficio is distributed to the Duriense growers. Someday I may write an article if not a book on this topic as it has fascinated me since the early 1990s, even before my first trip to the Douro. It amazes me how the IVDP has stifled the ability of financially able growers from becoming viable Port producers (under at least the last two heads of that regulatory agency).

Although Beneficio is supposed to be a pretty easy-to-read quota system based on the grading of a specific vineyard or growing area of a farmer's quinta, lots of other dynamics come into play. What was last year's harvest and demand for the grapes? The IVDP may feel that the yields need to be controlled, reducing or on rare instances, increasing the beneficio overall, or for specific properties. There's lots more to this than meets the eye, including the state of the economy in Portugal and the wishes of the Minister of Agriculture.

Ultimately though, the "less-than-perfect" system in place today DOES NEED to be revamped in a signicificant way, for the greater good and viability of the grape farmers in the Douro, as well as the Port trade overall.

Suggestions or questions?

[Derek T.]

For everyone in this thread ... this is NOT the venue to discuss September 11th topics, nor warnings for travelers. Please take that to either the travel part of our Forum or to Other Discussions please.

Apologies, Roy. Please feel free to move or delete my posts. I entirely agree that this is not the place for those subjects to be discussed.

[Roy Hersh]

No harm, no foul and no reason for deletions. We all get sidetracked from time to time. Thanks Derek!

Now back to Beneficio!

[Eric Menchen]

I wonder what the Tea Party thinks of the Beneficio.

[Andy Velebil]

I wonder what the Tea Party thinks of the Beneficio.

[Victor D.]

As the violence rises. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/trave ... lling.html

[Moses Botbol]

As the violence rises. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/trave ... lling.html

People get killed all the time even in the safest of places.

[Rob C.]

As the violence rises. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/trave ... lling.html

This story was from May, concerned a tourist resort at the other end of Portugal, and personally i see no link to the Beneficio-related protests in the Douro or that taken together there is a rising tide of violence

What are the solutions?

If Symingtons or TFP could choose their short & long term roadmap, what would it be?

I think this is a very interesting question. And then, would the small producers agree with them...or each other? Re-reading Adrian Bridge's old comments, I think he makes a compelling argument but it is clear that removal of the beneficio would not be without its own victims. George Sandeman's comments are also interesting, particularly concerning "the “tip” of the 10 million case iceberg" and that the fundamental issues he raises at the end of his post should not get lost in arguments about tinkering with the beneficio.

[Glenn E.]

As the violence rises. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/trave ... lling.html

This story was from May, concerned a tourist resort at the other end of Portugal, and personally i see no link to the Beneficio-related protests in the Douro or that taken together there is a rising tide of violence

Agreed. Irrelevant and outdated. It is most certainly NOT evidence of rising violence in the Douro.

[hugo oliveira]

People are often afraid of what they don't know or understand. It was very much so in the middle ages, when everything that happened and could not be explained was atribbuted to Gods, witches or the Devil.

Science and progress took care of solving many misteries, opening new worlds to the world, as we modest few in Portugal done in the XV and XVIth century.

So Victor, if i may, i would suggest you to visit Portugal... maybe see with your own eyes what a peaceful paradise is our country, and mainly the douro region, where lots of people don't even lock their own doors.

Of course that if you go to some areas in the big cities you'll problably get mugged. But that is common sense, and you should be aware and vigilant, anywhere...

For the record, the "old" news that you posted is from a murder some 500 km from the Douro. And so what? As Moses eloquently said, people get killed anywhere. Look at Norway, one of the safest countries in the world, that i had the pleasure to visit 2 years ago, and the tragedy that took place some months ago this year.

We have millions of tourists each year in our country, and a lot of them come back, because on a narrow strip of land we have so many cultures, ways, food (and i should say the best food in the world, regarding quality / price / diversity) and of course wine, the thing that unites us all in this forum.

If everybody followed your (if i may) "extra precautions and a little bit of fear" everybody wouls stay in their own homes, afraid of getting out. Nobody would visit the USA, where the crime is REALLY a problem.
But is it a problem everywhere in the US? Of course not.... there are bad neighbourhoods, bad areas and A LOT of real safe places.

If you read a portuguese daily newspaper you would see that normally the crimes are small (robberys, some beatings, and crimes of passion). And this is for the WHOLE of the country.

So visit us. And try some Port in the Douro Valley. Now in the harvest season is one of the great experiences that you can get in your life.

Sorry all for the lenghty post :)

[Christian Gollnick]

Very nicely written, Hugo - and I totally agree. The Douro is such a friendly, peaceful country... This "riot" was for sure not a nice event, but I have the feeling that the media have made this a little bit bigger than it really was... On the Youtube-videos I saw mainly elderly people that throw grapes on the ground and stamp on them. This is sad, but not scary.
This forum discusses of course all things related to port - be it good or bad. It's great to have a platform where so many people give their input. We shouldn't "hide" anything negative and be totally open and transparent about all problems related to our port. But on the other side we shouldn't create negativity where it is absolutely not necessary. The Douro is safe. Full stop. The danger is that you buy too many bottles of port after long hours of tasting. But nothing else.
The Portuguese in general are very friendly. The Portuguese in the Douro are just fantastic.
I recommend to everyone to go to the Douro and to have a few marvelous days over there!

[Roy Hersh]

We are here in the Douro now for several days and no residual signs of violence. The Beneficio is a contentious issue understood by few and in need of great modifications over the next decade. Will it happen? Not confident that it will be addressed properly, even though it is probably the number one issue facing the region.

[Victor D.]

We are here in the Douro now for several days and no residual signs of violence. The Beneficio is a contentious issue understood by few and in need of great modifications over the next decade. Will it happen? Not confident that it will be addressed properly, even though it is probably the number one issue facing the region.

Great to hear Roy, thank you for posting this!