20 Year Tawny Horizontal

[Phyllis D]

If you were doing a 20 year Tawny horizontal, what 6 Tawnies would you choose? The one requirement would be that all of the wines would have to be readily available in the USA, through local wine stores. Wines that wine stores can not get through US distributors would unfortunately have to be off the table.

[Andy Velebil]

Here's my list

Ferreira
Niepoort
Sandeman
Portal
Ramos Pinto
Taylor's

[Glenn E.]

Here's my list

Ferreira
Niepoort
Sandeman
Portal
Ramos Pinto
Taylor's

I'd probably swap out the Portal in favor of a Graham's, but otherwise I agree with Andy's list. The first 3 in particular.

Ramos Pinto, Ferreira, and Sandeman need to be on this list in my opinion. They have different styles, but are the three best 20-yr olds that I've found in the US. (Andresen... Villar d'Allen... S. Leonardo... *sigh* And now I have a Brunheda 20 to try, too, thanks to Stewart.) Niepoort makes fantastic Colheitas, but I haven't been that impressed with their TWAIOA. It's worth inclusion, though, as it may be a style thing that I just don't appreciate.

My original favorite 20-yr old was the Porto Rocha, but as I gained experience I realized that it just isn't quite top flight. There's still a place reserved for it in my heart, though... your first love will always be your first love.

[Moses Botbol]

Good list. With Glenn's response, I would do Grahams or Presidential instead of Portal (due to availibility). If you can find Portal, then the list is good as is.

[Roy Hersh]

I like Andy's list best but would sub in the Ramos Pinto - Qta do Bom Retiro 20 year old by Ramos Pinto, over their regular bottling. Portal over the Graham's for my taste. I'd also add the Villar d'Allen 20 year old Tawny made by Quevedo.

[Glenn E.]

sub in the Ramos Pinto - Qta do Bom Retiro 20 year old by Ramos Pinto, over their regular bottling.

I wasn't even aware that they had a "regular" bottling. When I talk about a Ramos Pinto 20-yr old, I'm talking about the Q.d. Bom Retiro. If they actually have two different 20-yr olds I'll have to be more specific in the future!

[Marc J.]

I think that Andy's list is pretty spot on, although I'd sub in Burmester in place of the Portal.

[Andy Velebil]

sub in the Ramos Pinto - Qta do Bom Retiro 20 year old by Ramos Pinto, over their regular bottling.

I wasn't even aware that they had a "regular" bottling. When I talk about a Ramos Pinto 20-yr old, I'm talking about the Q.d. Bom Retiro. If they actually have two different 20-yr olds I'll have to be more specific in the future!

I didn't realize they had two different ones either. I thought it was just the Retiro.

[Phyllis D]

A most excellent list here, thank you gentlemen.
Now that we have a good list of 20 yr Tawny Ports, the planning can begin.

[Carl D]

We're more or less settled on our list of 20's (Andy's list plus Qta do Noval, since we have a soft spot for all things Qta do Noval), but that brings me to a question:

I've seen discussion in various threads on this fourm and elsewhere about "Duoro Style" versus "Portugese Style" versus "English or non-Portugese Style" tawnies. What I haven't seen is any kind of rundown of which tawnies would be characterized as being of each style.

So, here's the question: What style most closely characterizes each of the following 20 year old tawnies?

Ferreira Duque du Braganca
Niepoort
Sandeman
Portal
Ramos Pinto (qta Bom Retiro)
Taylor's
Noval

[Glenn E.]

So, here's the question: What style most closely characterizes each of the following 20 year old tawnies?

My understanding is that "Portuguese style" means a rounder, fruitier tawny while "British style" means a nuttier and more torrefacted tawny. Within the Portuguese style, Douro typically means more oxidized and "baked" notes while Gaia means... well, less oxidized and "baked" notes.

I would say that Ferreira, Noval, Portal, and Ramos Pinto are all Portuguese style tawnies, while Sandeman and Taylor are British style. Niepoort is a style all its own, neither really Portuguese nor British to me.

Of the Portuguese style tawnies, I think of Noval being more of the Douro style while Ferreira is more of the Gaia style. Distinguishing between those two sub-styles in a 20-yr old isn't exactly a precise science, though. Portal and Ramos Pinto are tough calls since to me both exhibit some "British style" characteristics. In Portal's case, that would be significant coffee/toffee notes (torrefaction), and in Ramos Pinto's case it would be quite a bit of nuttiness. I equate the torrefaction in Portal to Douro bake, so to me it's a variation on Douro style. Ramos Pinto falls into Gaia style for me, simply because it doesn't really fit any better anywhere else.

[Peter W. Meek]

sub in the Ramos Pinto - Qta do Bom Retiro 20 year old by Ramos Pinto, over their regular bottling.

I wasn't even aware that they had a "regular" bottling. When I talk about a Ramos Pinto 20-yr old, I'm talking about the Q.d. Bom Retiro. If they actually have two different 20-yr olds I'll have to be more specific in the future!

I seem to recall researching all the different ways that people had entered the R-P 20 into the CellarTracker database, and concluded (based on some label pictures) that there was only one, but that rarely did two people enter it the same in the database. Was I wrong, and there actually are two versions? Is it possible that only the QdBR is available in the US?

[Peter W. Meek]

...Niepoort is a style all its own, neither really Portuguese nor British to me....

Friday evening I had a Niepoort distributor tell me that while most tawnies were either British or Portuguese in style, Niepoort was a Dutch-style tawny. With only one example, I guess you could say that.

BTW, their 20 year tawny and their 1998 Colheita were pretty good Friday evening, paired with dried apricots, chocolate truffle, and roasted pistachios (really roasted; almost like a medium-roast coffee bean - terrible alone/surprisingly good with the ports.)

(This was part of an extremely good freebie: 5 courses of great food, paired with two wines for each course. Ingrate that I am, I only bought four bottles {including 2 of the N-20}. But I did buy a Code-38/Stealth from the guy sitting next to me {Jeff Toering}. I must be nuts!)

[Andy Velebil]

I personally think it's wrong to call it a British style tawny. I prefer to lump them into two broad categories; Portuguese and non-Portuguese style.

Portuguese style is the "fatter" style with more fruit, a bit heavier in weight on the palate, and a bit more rounder in texture...as Glenn has already pointed out. Though I'll break ranks with Glenn as I think Noval is more non-Portuguese in style and I categorize it as such.

Non-Portuguese style is more acidic driven, lighter in color, with less fruit and more dried nuts and more oxidative instead. Since there have historically been many more houses than British that made Tawny's in this style, and far mroe sold in other countries, it really shouldn't be classified as a "British style" (remember, hisorically the British haven't drunk much of the "brown sticky stuff" to begin with).

As for Douro and Gaia styles. Just a fancy way to say the following....
Douro = Non-Portuguese style
Gaia = Portuguese style

Of course, we're painting with a wide brush here as some may not fall distinctively into a specific category. But may be a combination of the two...shall we call it "Globalized style"????

[Rob C.]

sub in the Ramos Pinto - Qta do Bom Retiro 20 year old by Ramos Pinto, over their regular bottling.

I wasn't even aware that they had a "regular" bottling. When I talk about a Ramos Pinto 20-yr old, I'm talking about the Q.d. Bom Retiro. If they actually have two different 20-yr olds I'll have to be more specific in the future!

I seem to recall researching all the different ways that people had entered the R-P 20 into the CellarTracker database, and concluded (based on some label pictures) that there was only one, but that rarely did two people enter it the same in the database. Was I wrong, and there actually are two versions? Is it possible that only the QdBR is available in the US?

I asked about this at the Big Fortified Tasting in Lodon this year - for the UK market at least, i was told by the RP reps that there is only one curent bottling of 20 yr (the Bom Retiro) and one bottling of 10yr (Ervamoira), whilst their 30 is not designated in the same way.

[Rob C.]

Not wanting to confuse things further, i always found George Sandeman's description of tawny as coming in three distinct styles (here) to be a very helpful summary.

[Rob C.]

As for Douro and Gaia styles. Just a fancy way to say the following....
Douro = Non-Portuguese style
Gaia = Portuguese style

Now i am confused!

The Sandeman Tawny is an “English” style Gaia aged Tawny, differentiated from the Douro style Tawnies (which are more caramelized and toasted, referred to as “Douro burn”), and the Portuguese Tawnies which have less oxidised fruit.

[Andy Velebil]

As for Douro and Gaia styles. Just a fancy way to say the following....
Douro = Non-Portuguese style
Gaia = Portuguese style

Now i am confused!

The Sandeman Tawny is an “English” style Gaia aged Tawny, differentiated from the Douro style Tawnies (which are more caramelized and toasted, referred to as “Douro burn”), and the Portuguese Tawnies which have less oxidised fruit.

It's Port, which is supposed to be confusing

So what he's saying is it's a Douro style, but aged in Gaia. So while he classifies it as an English Tawny, the rest of us simply lump it into the Non-Portuguese (Douro) style.

Then again since it's a Douro style aged in Gaia maybe it should be lumped into my new category of "Globalized style"

Seriously, don't get too wrapped up in this. We are all painting with a wide brush here and simply trying to keep it a bit simple by lumping them into two broad categories. Those that are more fruit driven and those that are more oxidative in style.

[Glenn E.]

Seriously, don't get too wrapped up in this. We are all painting with a wide brush here and simply trying to keep it a bit simple by lumping them into two broad categories. Those that are more fruit driven and those that are more oxidative in style.

+1

Fruit driven is the Portuguese style, more nutty is the English style. If it has a lot of caramel and other oxidized flavors, that's probably Douro bake. Which, realistically, can be applied to either style. I just normally associate it with Portuguese style tawnies more than English style tawnies.

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[John M.]

Is it being proposed that we have a world-wide tasting like we did with the Reserve Rubies back in March.If so, when? (Around International port Day 2.0?)