Help evaluating an old port wine bottle

[Carlos Sampaio]

Hi!

My aunt and uncle have a very old port wine bottle. It belonged to his father and even then was already old. They're considering selling it, but they don't have any idea of value, or if it is worth to try it.

We think it may be something of value, but then again we have no special knowledge.

Here is a link where you can see the bottle in detail.
https://plus.google.com/photos/11642571 ... u6Le_5PFaA


Any idea?

Thanks in advanced.

[Andy Velebil]

You have what appears to be a Colheita (single vintage Tawny Port) from 1908. The producer appears to be Real Companhia Velha. Before anyone can give a fairly accurate value of it there are some questions that would need to be answered.

1- What is the fill level of the wine inside the bottle?
2- How and where has this been stored for all the decades your family has owned it?
3- Does there appear to be any signs of leaking or seepage (old or new)?
4- Where are you (or this bottle) located? Country has a lot do due with pricing.
Thanks

[Glenn E.]

It appears that a similar bottle may have sold at Christies in 1996 in a larger lot of 12 bottles:

Sale Information Sale 7341
Vintage Ports, Fine Wine and Bin-Ends
23 September 1996
London, South Kensington

Lot Description
Real Cia. Velha, Novidade de 1896(2)
Real Cia. Velha, Novidade de 1904(1)
Real Cia. Vehla, Novidade de 1908(1)
Borges, Junco Vineyard--Vintage 1958(1)
Borges, Junco Vineyard--Vintage 1960(3)
Borges--Vintage 1960(1)
Constantino--Vintage 1963(1)
Real Cia. Velha, No.15 Damaged capsules(2)
Above 12 bottles per lot

That lot sold for £286 ($445 at the time) 16 years ago. I think it would be reasonable to assume that the 1908 constitutes no more than 1/5 of the total value given that there are 3 older bottles in the lot and 8 younger ones. It is probably more likely that the 1908 is worth about 1/8 of the value... or roughly $60.

But that was 16 years ago. As a rough estimate for today, double that value to $120 or possibly as high as $150. 1996-2008 was pretty good for Port prices. 2008-2012 not so much.

Andy - the fill level appears to be base neck/top shoulder. You can just barely see it in one of the two pictures of the neck label.

[Carlos Sampaio]

Hi! Thank you for your fast reply!

The bottle looks in perfect condition. I mean, it doesn't seems to be leaking or something like that. The level is right about where Glenn says. It's located here in Portugal and it was always stored in cool places next to other liquor bottles, standing up. Not a wine cellar, but it was always kept with care.

Seems to be "Real Cia. Velha, Novidade de 1908", as you say!

Do you think it might be in good condition?

I thought it would worth a lot more!

Thanks!

[Russ K]

If stored standing up there is a good chance the cork has dried and the wine has gone bad, seriously devaluing the wine. The best way to approach this bottle is to pop it, and if its good, enjoy every drop.

[Eric Menchen]

Yes. A bottle that has been stored standing up won't show sign of seepage, but very well may be oxidized or otherwise spoiled as a result.

I think Glenn's price assessment is reasonable. What no one has mentioned is that while Vintage Port is intended to be aged in the bottle, a Colheita is not, so they tend to not appreciate in value, or even go down in value, some time after bottling. This bottle is a novelty and would be fun to try, but not something specifically sought out. Is there any other mention of year on the bottle? Is there any label on the back?

[Glenn E.]

I thought it would worth a lot more!

Ah, you are in Portugal. The value depends a lot on the location.

That Christies auction was in England, and Port prices in England are about as low as you can find them. Those of us in the United States are usually very jealous of our friends who live in England because they usually pay less than half of what we have to pay here.

What is really strange is that prices in Portugal are often the highest of any prices in the world. You would think that Port would be less expensive in the country that makes it, wouldn't you? But no, that's not how it seems to work!

In Portugal the value of your bottle would probably double again. It would not surprise me to see it listed for $300-$400 in Portugal because your prices are usually very high compared to prices in England.

[Eric Menchen]

Yes, prices at that shop in Lisbon (Garrafeira Nacional) that stocks quite a few bottles of colheita are ridiculous.

[Carlos Sampaio]

Thank you all for your input. It is of great value to me!

I'll tell the news to my uncles and see what they want to do with it!

Lets imagine the wine didn't went bad. Is it a mistake to lay down the bottle now?

Thank you!

[Andy Velebil]

Lets imagine the wine didn't went bad. Is it a mistake to lay down the bottle now?

Thank you!

The answer is yes or no. It depends on how bad the cork is or isn't. The only test is to lay it down and see if it leaks. Although, after this long standing up, leaving it standing a little longer won't hurt it.

[Glenn E.]

Although, after this long standing up, leaving it standing a little longer won't hurt it.

Exactly. Even another year standing up probably isn't going to change anything at this point, so why take the risk of laying it down? Leave it where it is for now and plan to drink it some time this year.