For The Love Of Port

The decision has been made and as announced in the December newsletter, this is the ONE AREA of the FTLOP Forum which will move to "premium content" and will only be able to be accessed by MEMBERS of the FTLOP Partnership Program. They will have even more "privileges" on the website and in specific areas of the newsletter, including .pdf versions made available to them not to mention their ability to have 100% access to information.

This area will not be able to be viewed by non-members as of February 1st 2007. I realize this won't be a widely popular decision, but with some new additions that will take place here ... it will be well worth the ongoing visits. to say the least!

We will continue to provide added value and content for our members and after this change, nothing else will be taken away from those choosing not to become members. Thanks to those of you who have provided your support. It will never be taken for granted!

membership has its privileges.

membership has its privileges

Given that the great bulk of posts in this section are from people selflessly sharing information on the availability of wine - why would they want to pay for the privilege?

Sorry Roy.....

Tom

Roy does this for free. We benefit. If we each help in a modest way (less than the cost of a bottle of moderate VP), we all benefit.

Uncle Tom,

No disrespect, but...

I certainly wouldn't have any issue if the sharing of info was in the public domain and any exclusives offers, specials, early notices were under the pay site, but for such a small investment for all the free services FTLOP provides I'm not sure why anyone is having an issue with the smallest donation.

Information on the internet ISN'T free, it involves someone's valuable time.

Roy, Stewart and the contributors to FTLOP spend their personal time, time away from their children, spouses etc. to keep this resource going.

Respectfully,
Raj

I fully accept that Roy needs a mechanism for covering his outlay, but I have grave concerns that his chosen mechanism will severely reduce participation.

In my own professional field, the principal publications survive through the sponsorship of the trade, who happily sponsor sections and place adverts (that they know will generate little return) - in order to support the publication.

Much better that this section remains free to use, but accompanied by the tag 'Sponsored by Taylors' - for example..

Tom

Tom,

Thank you for your candor and please know that I appreciate you being so direct. There was a similar thread that I responded to, which raised some of the same points. I don't know if you have seen it or not, as it was my last posting in this thread which provided my reply:
http://www.fortheloveofport.com/ftlopfo ... php?t=2048

As mentioned on a number of ocassions, the vast majority (95%) of the site will remain accessible to all who want to read, post, etc ... which includes the website, newsletter and Forum.

Lastly, your comment:

but I have grave concerns that his chosen mechanism will severely reduce participation

You need not worry about the reduction of participation! The fact is, that when we introduced the new website and newsletter at the end of day on Dec. 20th 2006, there were 492 folks signed up on the Forum in the nearly 17 months the website had been operational.

Today, just over a month later, we have increased the number of registered enthusiasts here by about to 613 as of this writing, again ... in just one month. This is AFTER introduction of the donation "mechanism" and the percentage of increase is nothing short of remarkable. So please don't continue to worry, as the number of posts in the past month have also increased significantly compared to the average for a typical month.

Again, thanks for your honest thoughts and concerns and ongoing participation Tom. And to those of you whom have supported our efforts and joined the FTLOP Partnership Program, once again ... you have my sincere gratitude.

Respectfully,

Roy

I've been silent on the topic of web-membership by donation for a while now, but thought I would chip in here. My thoughts are similar to Raj, but also similar to Tom.

When I was deciding whether or not to donate to the website, I took three or four things into account. They were (in no particular order):
1) Do I want the site to continue moving in the direction of becoming the number one port and madeira website

2) Would I spend hard cash to buy the newsletters if they appeared on a newsstand next to Wine Spectator and Decanter magazines?

3) Would I buy Stewart and Roy a (nice / really nice) bottle of port once per year to say thanks for all the hard work put in on FTLOP?

4) What sort of mood was I in at the time?

And then I made my decision whether to donate and how much to donate.

However, I would like to state here and now that I do not see anything wrong with seeking sponsorship and / or advertising. I would love to see banner adds or sponsors logos along the top or edge of the pages. I would love to know that if I ordered a bottle of port from Berry's, I could direct a commission of x% to help fund the future of the website. I would love to see the trade getting further behind this website - we really appreciate the snippets of information we are passed, maybe some of the key players in the trade could also help to financially support the website with a minute part of their marketing budgets (since most producers websites need a lot of work, perhaps it could be argued that they would be better to outsource this work to Stewart and Roy anyway).

My thoughts, after a particularly long and traumatic flight back to the UK. Hopefully I won't regret my comments when I re-read them tomorrow.

Alex

If port producers or the "industry" sponsor the site...maybe I'm just being paranoid and I'm not sure that it would happen... but I'd be worried that people wouldn't speak as freely for fear of offending a sponsor....
I've seen that happen in a few other forums(non wine related)

i think roy should be able to design his site the way he wants to. i actually think it should be sponsored by reputable port merchants if they give us first crack at deals, offerings, specials etc. most of us buy our port either at auction or from reputable on line retailers. i would love a window of opportunity to buy port before its offered to the rest of the world. american express offers its clients the best seats to concerts and shows before the general public. i think if certain online merchants ie: wine library, premier cru, hart davis here, or fill in the blank merchant in england sponsored the marketplace site, and passed along discounts and specials, both the retailer and the membership wins. they build a stronger clientele, we get what we want at the right prices. just as the catalog at an auction costs $20, this page takes time to manage and should costsomething. i would pay a fair fee if i knew that we would be getting specials, discounts and offerings before the rest of the public.
i think roy should be able to build his brand the way he sees fit--afterall, he's put the most into it.

I like the forum and the interaction with other members as to paying for the extra part of the site probably not.The reasons are that I'm yet to see anything from the port and madeira market place that is a great offer.Apart from actual members tips. eg George Rhys prices are unbeleivably high.If it was a donation of what ever you wanted and all the website was free I would consider it.But like many other sites which have a members only area I have never subscribed.I would not be against advertisments because as you say Roy should be compensated for his time.But if there are not enough subscriptions will any other parts disapear into the members only part to tempt others.I'm sorry for any grammer mistakes as i'm suffering from a very heavy cold and am quite unwell.

Simon,

First and foremost, I hope you get well quickly!

I have enjoyed reading your response. You and I have been in touch long before this website ever existed ... so please do realize that "donations to FTLOP .. which is ultimately me" hopefully is not seen as just a way to pay-to-play here in the MARKETPLACE FORUM. That would be shortsighted.

I hope you see that the newsletter has nothing to do with this area, nor the FORUM at large. Together the 3 facets of FTLOP make up more than the sum of the parts. The Forum alone takes up many hours a week in management. What you don't see is all of the private messages and emails, (authentication of specific bottles, advice on decant times, should I buy this or not, is this retailer worthy, how do I know if this is a good bottle, can you help me evaluate this lot of Ports, what is a Colheita, etc.) and behind the scenes management that goes on and takes up dozen of hours per month. You only see when I post (and of course, everyone else's as well).

So, if the UK retail community will cooperate ... and I have reached out to more cost friendly players there, then the UK guys will enjoy this one small area of the web-presence that is FTLOP. Again, you do not have to donate anything to still get the newsletter, enjoy the vast majority of the Forum and website itself. Members do have access to areas and will be informed of certain things that non-members won't. THAT is only a way to add value and thank folks for their donations.

But ultimately, the reason for donations is to support my efforts and that of Stewart for the content, time and management of the 3 areas of FTLOP. Without this, I can't say if the site would continue as I don't see advertizing the same way others do. Advertizing compromises integrity, it doesn't have to and I don't think it would necessarily do so to me. But honestly and sadly, that is how it is viewed. Someday I might become more enlightened, but for now ... my reputation IS my tasting notes. They can never be called into question or compromised, at any cost.

You asked:

But if there are not enough subscriptions will any other parts disapear into the members only part to tempt others

What becomes "members only" on Feb. 1st has been clearly stated on the website itself -- from newsletter available in full form .pdf copies to photo upload area to new Marketplace to ALL of my tasting notes, which are the most important as only members will see the 300+ new Port/Madeira and Douro TNs that are GUARANTEED this year. Of course, I hope there will be 400 but I can guarantee 300. These not only will be accessed in the new and excellent (thank you Stewart!!) data base, but also in future articles and ONLY by members.

So to answer your question, will anything else be taken away. I will offer a DONATION BACK GUARANTEE that nothing else that "is currently in place on the website will be removed after Feb. 1st, that has not already been specified in this section: http://fortheloveofport.com/index.php?o ... 8&Itemid=1). Fair enough?

NOW are you ready to step up?

Roy,

I'd like to lodge my plea to have the Port & Madeira Marketplace forum kept open to all for exchange and posting of those "heads-up" notices that we all like to post to each other when we spot a bargain.

I would prefer either a new forum for the restricted "Partners" opportunities or the existing forum become restricted but a new public marketplace open up to all to post.

I really like being able to give and receive buying "tips" and for people to occasionally post that they have a bottle of wine for sale, so please let this continue even if the "official" tips then go to a "Partnership" location. I would prefer to keep these out of the other port forums as they are much clearer on their own.

Alex

Roy,

I think this thread needs to be updated with your recent decision?

Derek

Ok, but I can only assume that most people are already aware of the decision:
http://www.fortheloveofport.com/ftlopfo ... php?t=2306

Thanks, Roy

I only came across this thread tonight and it struck me that others may find it at a future date so I thought it could do with some closure in terms of the theme of the debate.

Derek

The "NEW" FTLOP PP Market PORTfolio is now in place and ready for your posting pleasure. Please DO have a look at the very first thread for some basic information, caveats and requests, from your Admin (Stewart) + Moderator (moi).