Hello,
I am new to the world of port, and I am looking for port from the 2000 vintage as it is a birthyear of one of my sons.
I see where some Fonseca 2000 750ml's are available on sale around $45. Is this a buy in your opinion?
Thanks,
WN
Fonseca 2000 buy?
Moderators: Glenn E., Roy Hersh, Andy Velebil
Hey Glen,
The Fonseca 2000 isn't bad at $45, but you might also try a Niepoort 2000 as well. The Niepoort 2000 (Secundum) is around the same price and is a wonderful wine.
(Just checked and found the Niepoort for $31/bottle! Here is the URL: http://www.amazinggrapeswinestore.com/s ... odcode=991)
I haven't tasted it yet, but it seems that the Grahams 2000 may have been the best of the vintage, but it's about $80 per bottle.
Sure wish my mom had hooked me up.
--A
The Fonseca 2000 isn't bad at $45, but you might also try a Niepoort 2000 as well. The Niepoort 2000 (Secundum) is around the same price and is a wonderful wine.
(Just checked and found the Niepoort for $31/bottle! Here is the URL: http://www.amazinggrapeswinestore.com/s ... odcode=991)
I haven't tasted it yet, but it seems that the Grahams 2000 may have been the best of the vintage, but it's about $80 per bottle.
Sure wish my mom had hooked me up.
--A
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Wine Nightly
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First let me extend a warm welcome to Glen! 
Then let me say that if you can really find bottles of 2000 Fonseca for $45 then grab an entire case as that is a fabulous price if it is for a 750!
To Alec, I find your statement about Graham's being the best wine of the vintage ... with the footnote that you have not even tried it, well, ludicrous. How can you make a statement like this without trying the wine? Just by reading about it? Come on many, I normally love your posts, but this one? Yikes. Also, Niepoort for $31 and Graham's for $80. There is something very wrong with that picture, unless you were still talking about the Secundum!
Glen,
The prices are not NORMALLY dropped (especially on amazing vintages like 2000) when the next great one hits the market. In general, there is a slight malaise in the Port market and that is why pricing has been stagnant or down in the past 18 months.
Then let me say that if you can really find bottles of 2000 Fonseca for $45 then grab an entire case as that is a fabulous price if it is for a 750!
To Alec, I find your statement about Graham's being the best wine of the vintage ... with the footnote that you have not even tried it, well, ludicrous. How can you make a statement like this without trying the wine? Just by reading about it? Come on many, I normally love your posts, but this one? Yikes. Also, Niepoort for $31 and Graham's for $80. There is something very wrong with that picture, unless you were still talking about the Secundum!
Glen,
The prices are not NORMALLY dropped (especially on amazing vintages like 2000) when the next great one hits the market. In general, there is a slight malaise in the Port market and that is why pricing has been stagnant or down in the past 18 months.
Ambition driven by passion, rather than money, is as strong an elixir as is Port. http://www.fortheloveofport.com
Hey Roy,Roy Hersh wrote:To Alec, I find your statement about Graham's being the best wine of the vintage ... with the footnote that you have not even tried it, well, ludicrous. How can you make a statement like this without trying the wine? Just by reading about it? Come on many, I normally love your posts, but this one? Yikes. Also, Niepoort for $31 and Graham's for $80. There is something very wrong with that picture, unless you were still talking about the Secundum!
If you had bothered to click the link you would have seen that it was indeed Secundum for $31/bottle.
Second, I do not see how it is preposterous to state that Grahams may have been the best of the vintage given it's ratings and current price. And while I'd like to open one of mine now, at $80/bottle to replace why drink it so young?
'Nuff said? I think so.
--A
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Wine Nightly
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Roy,Roy Hersh wrote:First let me extend a warm welcome to Glen!
Then let me say that if you can really find bottles of 2000 Fonseca for $45 then grab an entire case as that is a fabulous price if it is for a 750!
Thanks for noticing that I'm new here. I have a lot of respect for your TN's, and appreciate your information being available here.
These are, in fact, 750's and they are for sale on Winecommune through their consignment account. Of course, the actual source is unclear.
http://www.winecommune.com/lot.cfm/lotID/953827.html
Looks a lot of people think it is a fabulous price. It would appear they had 540 bottles to sell, and 431 of them are gone leaving a paltry 109. I bought 6. :)
Glen
Glen,
I look forward to many more of your posts. Congrats on grabbing six. Go back and grab another six if cash is not an issue. It is not often you find a wine like this at a price that is unbelievably cheap.
Alec,
I love the Graham's, I just think YOU need to try a bottle and not just listen to a lot of others written words to form your own opinion. Heck, it is only $80. You may actually get a lot of love from that young VP. It is not unheard of, even if you prefer the oldies like I do. That is why it was great to read Alex's report on the 1994 Vesuvio. Later this coming week, I will be opening a 1994 Taylor, alongside a few others. Don't let the media convince you that it is a crime to open a VP while it is young. The 2000s are certainly not closed up at this time, (I had quite a few while in Portugal on our trip) and are showing pretty darn well.
Here is my TN from cask sample three years ago: No question it is a very fine VP.
GRAHAM - Quinta dos Malvedos went through a recent modernization and the Symington's have upgraded their fermenting tanks and put innovative robotic lagares into use for this vintage (60% of the grapes came from these lagares). They are the first Shippers to use them in production of a Vintage Porto after experimentation over the past several years. The grapes for the Graham blend were grown at Malvedos, Quinta do Vila Velha and Quinta do Vale de Malhadas for the 2000 VP. Dark purplish-black with fully opacity. Fine aromas of plum and dark cherry which translates to the sweet grapey palate with some ripe, jammy, dark berry fruit as well. Not a subtle VP by any means, with a focused, seamless structure and well-integrated round tannins. Some hot spirity character on the otherwise smooth, sweet finish was the only blemish on this excellent wine. This is not atypical though for young Graham's and in vintages like 1985 this resolved in time, albeit that is not the case with the 1977. The Graham is certainly amongst the top wines of the vintage although it is my second favorite Symington Vintage Porto from 2000. 95-97 points
I look forward to many more of your posts. Congrats on grabbing six. Go back and grab another six if cash is not an issue. It is not often you find a wine like this at a price that is unbelievably cheap.
Alec,
I love the Graham's, I just think YOU need to try a bottle and not just listen to a lot of others written words to form your own opinion. Heck, it is only $80. You may actually get a lot of love from that young VP. It is not unheard of, even if you prefer the oldies like I do. That is why it was great to read Alex's report on the 1994 Vesuvio. Later this coming week, I will be opening a 1994 Taylor, alongside a few others. Don't let the media convince you that it is a crime to open a VP while it is young. The 2000s are certainly not closed up at this time, (I had quite a few while in Portugal on our trip) and are showing pretty darn well.
Here is my TN from cask sample three years ago: No question it is a very fine VP.
GRAHAM - Quinta dos Malvedos went through a recent modernization and the Symington's have upgraded their fermenting tanks and put innovative robotic lagares into use for this vintage (60% of the grapes came from these lagares). They are the first Shippers to use them in production of a Vintage Porto after experimentation over the past several years. The grapes for the Graham blend were grown at Malvedos, Quinta do Vila Velha and Quinta do Vale de Malhadas for the 2000 VP. Dark purplish-black with fully opacity. Fine aromas of plum and dark cherry which translates to the sweet grapey palate with some ripe, jammy, dark berry fruit as well. Not a subtle VP by any means, with a focused, seamless structure and well-integrated round tannins. Some hot spirity character on the otherwise smooth, sweet finish was the only blemish on this excellent wine. This is not atypical though for young Graham's and in vintages like 1985 this resolved in time, albeit that is not the case with the 1977. The Graham is certainly amongst the top wines of the vintage although it is my second favorite Symington Vintage Porto from 2000. 95-97 points
Ambition driven by passion, rather than money, is as strong an elixir as is Port. http://www.fortheloveofport.com
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Wine Nightly
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Roy,Roy Hersh wrote:the Symington's have upgraded their fermenting tanks and put innovative robotic lagares into use for this vintage (60% of the grapes came from these lagares). They are the first Shippers to use them in production of a Vintage Porto after experimentation over the past several years.
What are lagares?
Thanks,
Glen
What are lagares?
Glen,
I'll answer this one.
Traditionally, port was made in large, open, granite troughs. I'm quoting now from George Robertson's book "Port".
"The lagar or treading tank is generally constructed from solid granite in varying sizes, in which anything up to 20 or 30 pipes of wine can be made {I forget how many bottles a pipe is, but its lots} They are normally square in shape, the walls being roughly 75cm in height."
Put simply, the lagars are then filled with grapes before lots of willing workers jump in and crush the grapes underfoot. Experience has shown that crushing grapes by foot in this way produces predominantly mild tannins, thought to be because feet are too soft to crush many of the grape pips and therefore avoid releasing the bitter tannins the pips contain (just think what happens when you bite into a grape seed when eatinga grape). Mechanisation in the '80s meant that many of the lagars fell into disuse, but the experience with the wines made through mechanised crushing have meant that a lot of the Quintas have decided to bring back lagars to a certain degree, at least for their Vintage Port wines.
The traditional lagar is very labour intensive and for many quintas this has proven to be a significant cost. Grahams appear to have developed a robotic equivalent of crushing by foot, and it is this that Roy refers to.
Alex
I'll answer this one.
Traditionally, port was made in large, open, granite troughs. I'm quoting now from George Robertson's book "Port".
"The lagar or treading tank is generally constructed from solid granite in varying sizes, in which anything up to 20 or 30 pipes of wine can be made {I forget how many bottles a pipe is, but its lots} They are normally square in shape, the walls being roughly 75cm in height."
Put simply, the lagars are then filled with grapes before lots of willing workers jump in and crush the grapes underfoot. Experience has shown that crushing grapes by foot in this way produces predominantly mild tannins, thought to be because feet are too soft to crush many of the grape pips and therefore avoid releasing the bitter tannins the pips contain (just think what happens when you bite into a grape seed when eatinga grape). Mechanisation in the '80s meant that many of the lagars fell into disuse, but the experience with the wines made through mechanised crushing have meant that a lot of the Quintas have decided to bring back lagars to a certain degree, at least for their Vintage Port wines.
The traditional lagar is very labour intensive and for many quintas this has proven to be a significant cost. Grahams appear to have developed a robotic equivalent of crushing by foot, and it is this that Roy refers to.
Alex
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Mario Ferreira
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TIP: A couple of pictures of Traditional Lagares may be found here: http://fortheloveofport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=131Wine Nightly wrote:What are lagares?