VINHO VERDE and Alvarinho ... lighter whites for summer

[Roy Hersh]

OK, in the other thread about Vinho Verde we got off on a tangent and it was really all about Aveleda.

I cut my teeth with Portuguese table wines with Vinho Verde long before ever touching a red. This was back in the mid-1980s when I was involved in the restaurant industry and Vinho Verde first made a splash in the USA.

For at home, I started buying the cheapies, Casal Garcia (by Aveleda) had an entry level VV that was $4.99 per bottle in a Mateus Rose shaped bottle. Well chilled, this was pretty green and spritzy but not sweet, yet still loaded with solid pear and peach flavors. Not a bad little introduction back then ... when few would ever consider drinking Vinho Verde in the USA.

It wasn't until the mid-1990s when I really started to spend more money on some bottles of this, because until then I did not see any need.

Nowadays some favorites have been the really reasonably priced Broadbent bottling which is a steal at about $8-10 depending on your location. I believe it was Moses, who also liked this wine.

Others I enjoy are: Soalheiro by Ferreira which is pricey; Muros de Melgacos by Mendes Anselmo which is an Alvarinho (yummy one!) and also Muros Antigo too; Quinta da Reguiero makes a fine version as does Solar de Serrade.

What are you favorites?

[Marco D.]

It's certainly that time of year for VV... My recent favorite is the 2007 Reguengo de Melgaço Alvarinho Moncão:

Full bodied, for an alvarinho, dripping with white peachs, melons, super-ripe pears and sea shells. Although this has flesh, there is superb balancing acidity which actually gives it a svelt, nervy profile. Ends with a clinging, lip-smacking finish.

[Brian C.]

I still say you can't go wrong with Espiral from Trader Joe's, at only $4. I feel like I'm getting away with something when I drink one of those. I tried an offering from Casal Garcia that cost twice as much but I didn't like nearly as much (though that's probably just me). I gather that vinho verdes are usually field blends, and I imagine that it's a matter of finding the blend that works for you.

Vinho verde goes great with a spicy Mexican seafood dish. It was a nice, cheap addition to our meal at a Mexican BYOB near us. (If I have a spicy Mexican dish that requires a red wine, a Spanish mencia is a home run.)

Another thing about vinho verdes: I read that a vinho verde absolutely destroyed Dom Perrignon in a blind tasting among numerous esteemed critics.

[Moses Botbol]

Another thing about vinho verdes: I read that a vinho verde absolutely destroyed Dom Perrignon in a blind tasting among numerous esteemed critics.

Really? Let's see... $1200 for a 95 DP Jero or $12 for Aveleda Magnum...

[Brian C.]

Another thing about vinho verdes: I read that a vinho verde absolutely destroyed Dom Perrignon in a blind tasting among numerous esteemed critics.

Really? Let's see... $1200 for a 95 DP Jero or $12 for Aveleda Magnum...

I was at a Borders awhile back and I was perusing a book about great bargain wines. There were a few vinho verdes mentioned in this book. For one of them, the author told the story about the vinho verde more than holding its own against Dom. Regardless of how much it costs for a Dom, I tried it once and really didn't care too much for it. I think I would have voted the same way.

[Roy Hersh]

I guess it would have a lot to do with the specific vintage of DP. For the life of me, I have a hard time believing that statement. However, I'd much rather spend $8-18 for a very solid or top notch VV then $120 for a great DP unless for a special occasion.

[Moses Botbol]

I guess it would have a lot to do with the specific vintage of DP. For the life of me, I have a hard time believing that statement. However, I'd much rather spend $8-18 for a very solid or top notch VV then $120 for a great DP unless for a special occasion.

Roy, would you say the same for Cristal or Krug?

[Roy Hersh]

Moses,

Funny story. When I worked a high end restaurant in NYC that was really "hot" in the early to late 1980's I got to eat there 1x per month gratis up to a certain spending limit. I was able to afford Cristal back then as it was not looked at in the same way as today. I have only had two or three bottles in the past decade. That said, I have a few friends who are seriously into Krug. I am not as I find it is definitely not my style of Bubbly. However, due to these friends, I get to drink Krug several times a year from the likes of 1985, 1988, 1989, 1990 vintages with some frequency. They do very little for me. I don't buy much Champagne but stylistically, I prefer Dom Perignon. A couple of years ago when the drop dead gorgeous 1996 DP was selling for $89 and later $99 at Costco, I bought a bunch. Sadly they were so delicious I drank all of them. What a mistake.

Typically, if I am going to buy bubbly it is Schramsberg from CA which is my favorite domestic producer. If I am into bargain bubbly, for under $20, I will buy Gruet, a boutique producer from New Mexico who just happens to make some stunning, high quality bubbly at silly prices.

That said, I am hard pressed to believe that a serious wine aficionado, no less a noted wine critic, could enjoy a simple VV over a DP or at least, not be able to tell one from the other.

[Moses Botbol]

That said, I am hard pressed to believe that a serious wine aficionado, no less a noted wine critic, could enjoy a simple VV over a DP or at least, not be able to tell one from the other.

I agree. Not sure I would rush out to the packy based on their reviews...

[Brian C.]

If I am into bargain bubbly, for under $20, I will buy Gruet, a boutique producer from New Mexico who just happens to make some stunning, high quality bubbly at silly prices.

I tried this once and enjoyed it, also. In the it's a small world category, I have an old friend in New Mexico whose daughter went to school with some Gruets. When I tried the wine, I was told that the Gruets were originally winemakers from France. Here is the link about their family history:

http://www.gruetwinery.com/family.htm?c ... 6650351789

Anyway, I know what I mentioned before certainly seems implausible, but I thought it was worth mentioning. I will go back and find the details if/when I have the time to do so.

[Roy Hersh]

Brian,

Please be sure to understand that NO ONE HERE is questioning the veracity of whether you saw this statement in print. The bone of contention is the author's claim, which may be true after all ... but it just seems mighty implausible given the dissimilar nature of fine Champagne and the flavor profile of Vinho Verde.

However, at my tasting group's last meeting where we were doing Rioja, every single one of us (blind) were fooled by a WA State vinified Sangiovese and none detected it was not the real McCoy ... so if the author's claim was that this happened in a lineup of Champagne where someone slipped in a bottle of Vinho Verde and it went undetected (blind) that way, I'd be much more of a true believer. I have done this MANY times with friends, putting an old bottle of CA Pinot Noir (typically I have inserted Hanzell or Chalone) into the lineup with Grand Cru Burgundy and the CA bottles have almost never been picked out of the bunch ... and several times where I even announced there was a ringer in the flight (oftentimes with 3-6 glasses in the flight). I have also played this way by putting the 2005 Niepoort Redoma Branco Reserva into a flight of 5 young white Burgs, with success. So who knows?

[Brian C.]

Roy,

I understand that it is the claim in the book that is being questioned, and that it's not me being questioned. I certainly appreciate the clarification, of course.

I think it would help if I found the details, though, just to better understand what really happened at the tasting, as in who were the tasters, where was it, which VV, which vintage of DP, etc.

[Brian C.]

Well, I must apologize, because I certainly screwed up a few facts from the book.

Here is a website that promotes the very book I was talking about:

http://www.thewinetrials.com/wp/category/the-book/
http://www.thewinetrials.com/wp/read-th ... e-reviews/

Not all of the tasters were esteemed critics. There were over 500 tasters used for the book, representing what was deemed to be an accurate cross section of the wine world and industry. The "experts" in the group did equally or slightly prefer the more expensive wines in the tastings, it should be noted.

The VV, which was the commonplace Aveleda, beat out some chardonnays (Cakebread from California and Chassagne-Montrachet 1er Cru) in the $40-$50 range.

As for Dom, 41 out of 62 tasters preferred Domaine Ste. Michelle Cuvee Brut at $12 to DP. It is also mentioned that the tasters were asked to rank 27 sparkling wines, and Dom placed 17th in the rankings. No mention as to which vintages were used.

The point of the book was to show how pricing affects people's perceptions on wines.

Again, my apologies for royally screwing up the facts from this book.

[Roy Hersh]

No harm, no foul.

My remaining question is this: When about 2 in 3 chose the Dom. Ste Michelle Brut (I pay $9 for it but it is 15 minutes from my home) over the DP ... were they staring at the labels or was this done as a blind tasting. If it was not blind, I am then 100% skeptical about the results as I know about label bias in that type of envirnoment. People like to tear down the big names, just because they can. I was always a big fan of the Cakebread, Napa Chard and with a decade to fifteen years of bottle age they are usually really beautiful whites. Their Napa Cab ain't too shabby either. But back to this book's assertions, thanks for clearing up the majority of the topics. I'd still love to know if those doing that judging were blind or not.

[Brian C.]

Roy,

According to the Chapter 1 text available on the site, the labels were concealed by a brown bag. Whether that's enough for the test to be truly blind is a fair question to ask. Is the brand discernible by the bottle's features, visible or otherwise silhouetted? How many of the tasters would be knowledgeable enough to figure out a brand from the limited information that might be available?

While it's possible for people to want to tear down a label, there are also people who are smitten by that same label before even tasting it. The thought would be that there is no way on earth a $12 bottle could be as good as Dom. I couldn't speak as to which sentiment is more commonplace. Would I be wont to tear down a Nacional because the prices seem so out of line in relation to other brands, or would the cachet of the brand sway me into believing that it was the best I had ever tried?

[Roy Hersh]

Would I be wont to tear down a Nacional because the prices seem so out of line in relation to other brands, or would the cachet of the brand sway me into believing that it was the best I had ever tried?

The simple answer Brian: it would be dependent on which vintage of Nacional you had the op to try.

[Michael M.]

I am quite late here. However, a white VV which really impressed me was:

2007 Afros Vinho Verde branco Escolha, Casal do Paco Padreiro.

This is not a light summer wine but a really serious one. It has 13 Vol. and spent 6 month in wood. Very pale yellow, fresh nose of apricots and peaches. In the mouth elegant opulence, terrific balance between acidity and slight sweetness, ends on a fresh note of citrus. A great wine for me. A number? Say 91.