What IS Port fortified with, exactly?
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What IS Port fortified with, exactly?
Is it just brandy?
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- Derek T.
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It's not brandy - it's a spirit extracted from grapes that would be undrinkable on it's own.
What Jason is referring to is that the the institute used to control this spirit and everyone had to use what they were given. This ended when it was discovered that one of the vintages from the 70's had been produced using a cheap industrial spirit rather than the real grape spirit. Now each producer can make or buy there own spirit from wherever they choose so it is part of the individual style of the port.
Derek
What Jason is referring to is that the the institute used to control this spirit and everyone had to use what they were given. This ended when it was discovered that one of the vintages from the 70's had been produced using a cheap industrial spirit rather than the real grape spirit. Now each producer can make or buy there own spirit from wherever they choose so it is part of the individual style of the port.
Derek
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It's aguardiente -- which is brandy, but unaged (clear). And it used to be bought under contract by the authorities (originally from Portuguese sources, but often from Eastern Europe) until, as Derek rightly mentioned, it was discovered to be industrial spirit rather than grape brandy.
The change now opens a possibility that different shippers/producers, now using different sources, will discover that the addition of this spirit is yet one more variable that distinguishes X's wines from Y's.
Cheers,
Jason
The change now opens a possibility that different shippers/producers, now using different sources, will discover that the addition of this spirit is yet one more variable that distinguishes X's wines from Y's.
Cheers,
Jason
Porto comes from only one place . . . no matter what the label says!
Good question. The only other factor is that the aguardente for Port is at 77% while for Madeira it must be at 96%.
Ambition driven by passion, rather than money, is as strong an elixir as is Port. http://www.fortheloveofport.com
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Wow, now I'm really confused..
Is that what brandy is, then? Grape "spirit"?
Which is right? One of you says it's grape spirit, which another says is NOT brandy, then someone else says this grape spirit synonymous with brandy..
Are you all right, and I'm still missing something, or is there a lack of consensus?
Thanks for your patience..
Is that what brandy is, then? Grape "spirit"?
Which is right? One of you says it's grape spirit, which another says is NOT brandy, then someone else says this grape spirit synonymous with brandy..
Are you all right, and I'm still missing something, or is there a lack of consensus?
Thanks for your patience..
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I'm a bit confused, I though Aguardente was a colorless grape spirit. In Mayson's book "Port and The Douro" it says "... colourless grape spirit known as aguardente (often erroneously referred to as "brandy")."
So, it is really a type of brandy, like I buy here in the US, or is it just commonly refered to as brandy.
So, it is really a type of brandy, like I buy here in the US, or is it just commonly refered to as brandy.
Andy Velebil Good wine is a good familiar creature if it be well used. William Shakespeare http://www.fortheloveofport.com
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It is a neutral spirit that comes from grapes and is commonly called brandy in English and Aguardente in Portuguese. There are sweet Aguardentes that are on the market and are a common drink in Portugal, especially down south and in Madeira too. It is NOT to be confused with the Brandy that is used in Cognac, or the type found on the shelves in the USA. It is a neutral spirit and akin to what American's think of as "moonshine" as it is a distilled product, although much lower in alc. than most old moonshine stuff.
Aguardente is distilled grapes, to simplify this whole topic.
Brandy can come from pears, apples, pineapples and a large variety of other fruits and of course ... grapes too. Cognac is brandy produced in the Cognac region of France (to further confuse things). All Cognac is brandy, but not all Brandy is Cognac. I hope this helps.
Aguardente is distilled grapes, to simplify this whole topic.
Brandy can come from pears, apples, pineapples and a large variety of other fruits and of course ... grapes too. Cognac is brandy produced in the Cognac region of France (to further confuse things). All Cognac is brandy, but not all Brandy is Cognac. I hope this helps.
Ambition driven by passion, rather than money, is as strong an elixir as is Port. http://www.fortheloveofport.com
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Holy smokes Batman
Roy, thanks that cleared things up quite a bit. But Cognac is.....JUST KIDDING
Roy, thanks that cleared things up quite a bit. But Cognac is.....JUST KIDDING
Andy Velebil Good wine is a good familiar creature if it be well used. William Shakespeare http://www.fortheloveofport.com
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Hi Roy,
I think Aguardente is not just grapes but also the stalks and seeds but I could be wrong. When I was a kid I saw some being made and it was the entire leftovers after the pressing. But that wasn't a commercial brand I saw it was more "home-made" type so maybe the guy was just cheap.
I think what distinguishes these strong spirits is;
some are distilled wine only,
some are distilled pressed grape skins only (grappa)
some are distilled pressed grapes, stalks, seeds everything but the wine(aguardente).
then the distilled cereals, fruits, molasses, sugar cane brings us other stuff like Rhum, Vodka, Scotch, bourbon, whisky etc..
But I could be very wrong here.
One thing is certain, it is a new variable to play with when making port. And some brands are using this component to more or less good results.
Wish it was all the same stuff across all brands.
cheers
paba
I think Aguardente is not just grapes but also the stalks and seeds but I could be wrong. When I was a kid I saw some being made and it was the entire leftovers after the pressing. But that wasn't a commercial brand I saw it was more "home-made" type so maybe the guy was just cheap.
I think what distinguishes these strong spirits is;
some are distilled wine only,
some are distilled pressed grape skins only (grappa)
some are distilled pressed grapes, stalks, seeds everything but the wine(aguardente).
then the distilled cereals, fruits, molasses, sugar cane brings us other stuff like Rhum, Vodka, Scotch, bourbon, whisky etc..
But I could be very wrong here.
One thing is certain, it is a new variable to play with when making port. And some brands are using this component to more or less good results.
Wish it was all the same stuff across all brands.
cheers
paba
Paba,
When the Portuguese controlled the Aguardente purchases by the Port shippers, there were many issues that were not to the advantage of the buyers. Monopolization of an industry is not healthy, but I won't get into that trap here.
The producers and Shippers of Port are MUCH HAPPIER now that the shackles are removed and there is nothing from stopping anyone from buying Aguardente on the open market. Of course to prevent scandals (from reoccuring) the IVDP does maintain organoleptic and chemical analysis tests of all spirits that are used in ANY Port to be commercially released.
When the Portuguese controlled the Aguardente purchases by the Port shippers, there were many issues that were not to the advantage of the buyers. Monopolization of an industry is not healthy, but I won't get into that trap here.
The producers and Shippers of Port are MUCH HAPPIER now that the shackles are removed and there is nothing from stopping anyone from buying Aguardente on the open market. Of course to prevent scandals (from reoccuring) the IVDP does maintain organoleptic and chemical analysis tests of all spirits that are used in ANY Port to be commercially released.
Ambition driven by passion, rather than money, is as strong an elixir as is Port. http://www.fortheloveofport.com